Synodontis Njassae?

[blue2fyre]

Greetings, someone is selling this guy on another forum and I'm interested but I want to be sure. I know Synodontis Njassae are not common so I want toi 100% that the ID is right. Thanks.

[MatsP]

I know photographing fish is not easy, but one would expect that if someone is trying to sell a rare fish that needs identification that the photo was CLEAR! This is not a complaint on you, but the original seller.

I can't say for sure, but I'd say it's POSSIBLY S. njassae. Please wait until Sidguppy or Richard B has posted their thoughts.

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Mats

[MatsP]

I should add that I'm somewhat concerned about the fact that the fish in the picture posted here appears to have stripes in the caudal and dorsal fins, which I'd say is not quite right for S. njassae - at least, the pictures we have in the Cat-eLog shows spots [but the spots are sort of forming lines].

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Mats

[blue2fyre]

Thank you

I'll see what others say as well. It's a pricey catfish and I would rather be sure before forking over the money.

[MatsP]

It's a pricey catfish and I would rather be sure before forking over the money.

Exactly why one would think the seller would spend the time and effort to get a decent photo... This is feedback I'd be happy for you to take back to the seller and say something like "Mats on Planetcatfish says the picture isn't good enough for an ID, any chance you can get one which shows the fish clearly and is sharp?"

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Mats

[Marc van Arc]

I'm pretty sure this is not S. njassae.

[blue2fyre]

I've been looking up the species as well and I'm beginning to think the same. I do want to give the benefit of the doubt and I asked for another picture.

[blue2fyre]

More pictures

[Birger]

Definately not

Synodontis njassae

it looks like a

Synodontis ocellifer

but even then is possibly a hybrid, there are a lot of hybrid syno's trying to be passed off as S. njassae.

Birger

[Richard B]

My opinion is that this is a hybrid see pic 4 in this thread http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =8&t=28659. It is categorically NOT Njassae

[jippo]

Some kind of hybrid ocellifer, definately not a njassae.

[mstrpln03]

I'm the guy selling the fish and I was told it was a Synodontis Njassae. I have better pics and they were posted but the pics here have their heads cut off. I'll try to repost the pics. I got this fish one year ago from a friend who had it for 7 years. He told me it is a Synodontis Njassae.

[mstrpln03]

So I guess what I have is a Synodontis Ocellifer Hybrid. I don't know much about synos, is there anyway to get a more specific ID?

[Richard B]

So I guess what I have is a Synodontis Ocellifer Hybrid. I don't know much about synos, is there anyway to get a more specific ID?

A syno ocellifer hybrid is about as good as an ID as we can get. Commercial breeders are constantly trying new things but as hobbyists we are not involved in this & can only use our knowledge to to say what individual fish are unless we have access to genetic data

[mstrpln03]

So I guess what I have is not a Njassae I don't know much about synos, is there anyway to get a more specific ID?

A syno ocellifer hybrid is about as good as an ID as we can get. Commercial breeders are constantly trying new things but as hobbyists we are not involved in this & can only use our knowledge to to say what individual fish are unless we have access to genetic data

Thanks Richard B, Unfortunately I don't have the background on this fish. All I know is I got it from a friend. I helped he move, he had to break down the tank and offered me the fish. I have had him now for a year and my friend had him for 7 years. He was told by the owner of the pet shop (which has since closed) that this was a Njassae. I don't know much about synos and did some investigating before I posted him and to me he did look like a Njassae of the large spotted variety. My bad.

He is about 7 inches head to tail, if I were to ask a fair price for him, what would that be and should I offer him as a syno ocellifer hybrid?

[Richard B]

i believe a tissue sample - a bit of fin etc is what is primarily used but there are people far more knowledgeble on this than i.

As for price, that is a tough one. Any fish is only worth what someone is prepared to pay. It is a good looking, healthy fish that has been well cared for & some people are not concerned about genuine species v hybrids - they just want a nice fish

[MatsP]

The price of fish, and hybrids especially, is quite a difficult thing to say - as the saying goes, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay. I personally wouldn't KNOWINGLY pay for a hybrid, but other people may. It's a very nice looking fish - which to some people may make it valuable, and it's indeed a decent size (but not so large it can't be held in a "normal" size tank).

Just to give you and idea of the variation in price: I have four S. decora - one I got for free (around 6"), the others I paid £8, £8 (around 4") and £36 (around 7") pounds for. (roughly US$12 and $60 respectively)

The hybrid thing with Synos is something that has been more and more known - five or ten years ago, it was fairly unknown that fish COULD be hybrids, and fish shops where buying fish that they THOUGHT was genuine fish (and your fish certainly looks SIMILAR to S. njassae, so someone who hasn't seen them in real life often/for a long time or have a lot of pictures to view, it may well be difficult to say that it's NOT a genuine fish). So what I'm trying to say, the shop may very well have been unaware that it wasn't S. njassae - someone, however did know it wasn't a genuine S. njassae, and made money on the fact that it LOOKS like S. njassae.

And by the way, I have yet to see one myself, or see a post here asking if it is one where the fish ACTUALLY is S. njassae. When they do turn up in the shops, they are generally not that expensive, however. About £25/US$40 or so for a 3-4" fish, if I remember correctly what I've read here on Planet Catfish.

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Mats

[mstrpln03]

Thanks Guys,

The more I think about it now, the more I'm thinking about keeping him. I was going to turn his tank into my 4th saltwater tank, but now I'm thinking it would make a nice Rift Lake species tank. I guess I'll just change the name on the post to Mystery Synodontis.

[Richard B]

When they do turn up in the shops, they are generally not that expensive, however. About £25/US$40 or so for a 3-4" fish, if I remember correctly what I've read here on Planet Catfish. --
Mats

I got mine for 20 quid each so you are on target Mats!

[mstrpln03]

One more question. Do you think he'll get much bigger?

[MatsP]

Unfortunately, one of the problems with hybrids is that they may grow larger than both the parents, or somewhere halfway between - and we do not know for SURE what species are the parents in this case. But it's not going to grow QUICKLY at this stage of life, so I'd expect it to only grow a little bit more.

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Mats

[sidguppy]

definitely not njassae

I'm the guy selling the fish and I was told it was a Synodontis Njassae. I have better pics and they were posted but the pics here have their heads cut off. I'll try to repost the pics. I got this fish one year ago from a friend who had it for 7 years. He told me it is a Synodontis Njassae

u nless that other person was Stuart Grant (may he rest in peace), the fact that anyone just told you it was njassae doesn't add evidence at all

I've seen real njassae, I've photographed real njassae who arrived from Malawi (and were sent from there by the then alive and well Mr S. Grant) and I also keep a group

the differences are obvious:
first; the REAL njassae is a slim elongated species, not a highbuild fish like this; it has a pointed bulletshaped headprofile and very short-feathered lower jaw barbels.
this means that the branches on the lower barbels are tiny. this particular fish has large branches on the lower barbels.

second; the spots on njassae are much smaller and in the fine spot form even smaller than that; also spots on njassae are irregular, small spots and larger ones are distributed all over the fish; head, body and fins.

third: njassae has almost white barbels, especially in a bare tank. once settled it can and does color up a fair bit, but in a bare tank that is well lit; the njassae turns almost white, except for the spots and the golden copper sheen on the upper half of the body.
once well settled it can turn an olive green/brown color, but the belly often stays quite light in coloration.


for a real good look check the pix here:

Synodontis njassae

[mstrpln03]

Well if he isn't going to get too big for my 55 gallon tank, I think I've decided to keep him. He's gorgeous and if I really need another saltwater tank, I'll just get another tank. I think I'll re-scape his tank though. I'm thinking a driftwood stump, a river rock background, sand and a few plants. Do you think he'd be okay with Malawi chiclids?

[MatsP]

I'm not saying it won't grow bigger - just that it won't grow much from now on.

I wouldn't say that Malawi cichlids would be the ideal mix, but I think it would be able to fend for itself in a group of Malawis.

Since we believe this fish is a mix of riverine synos, I'd say it's likely that it prefers soft/acidic water. But most synos are very adaptable to water conditions. Malawis however will not appreciate softer water, so you need to decide which fish you make it "not so great for".

--
Mats

[mstrpln03]

I've been keeping my ph at 7.0 thinking this was a nsjassae. He seems happy. I can make it a little more acidic and see how he likes it.

[mstrpln03]

Definately not

Synodontis njassae

it looks like a

Synodontis ocellifer

but even then is possibly a hybrid, there are a lot of hybrid syno's trying to be passed off as S. njassae.

Birger

He does look similar to this fish in the 4th pic in the hybrid thread. I see a few differences however. His tail has a series of spots that form lines, the spots on his face are less pronounced, the spotting on his body is more uniform and his barbells are more tan than white.

[mstrpln03]

I should have checked here first. You guys know your stuff. Thank you for your considerations and I think, thanks to you guys, I've been inspired to keep him and build him as natural of a biotope as possible. You guys say he's a riverine species, so be it. Next up, my African river build. Cheers

[sidguppy]

those hybrids are likely bred in tapwater; they should be just fine in a Malawi tank, even at pH 8

I've seen loads of Malawi tanks full of chalciferous limestone rocks and containg next to Malawi's a host of -unfortunately- hybrid Syno's.
they usually do just fine; they are -also unfortunately- quite adaptable and much tougher than wildcaught Syno's

if you want to keep your Syno, a Malawi tank will do nicely.

[Cichlidintheblood]

Hi guys & gals im new to your site. i spent hours and hours reading and decided to register! I also have 4 syno njassae to my knowledge and from what i have read and seen they look to be. Obviously possible Hybrid's from what i read also.... =( im hoping there not but all this hybrid talk has made me parranoid and im going to post some pics to confirm there are the real deal!! as soon as i can get a pic of them lol. i have a very well furnished tank for these guys and they are by far my favorite off all my africans so they have alot of places to hide. currently in my 430L tank to themselves. will post pic soon. happy fish watching guys an gals take care!

[Birger]

Hi guys & gals im new to your site. i spent hours and hours reading and decided to register! I also have 4 syno njassae to my knowledge and from what i have read and seen they look to be. Obviously possible Hybrid's from what i read also.... =( im hoping there not but all this hybrid talk has made me parranoid and im going to post some pics to confirm there are the real deal!! as soon as i can get a pic of them lol. i have a very well furnished tank for these guys and they are by far my favorite off all my africans so they have alot of places to hide. currently in my 430L tank to themselves. will post pic soon. happy fish watching guys an gals take care!

Please do post your pics...start your own thread in this forum and we can target your fish specifically for you.

Birger