Fish photography tips and tricks

[andywoolloo]

Thanks for the info. I will definitely go look and see.

I show the Nikon Coolpix P90 at $399, $359 if ordered on line and the Nikon D90 DSLR with kit, (camera, battery and remote) is $1900.

It must be comparing apples and oranges. right? Is it just the speed of capture?

[MatsP]

Right. If we are talking cars here, the P90 is a tiny family car, and the D90 is a sports-truck. You want a small (as oppposed to tiny) family car.

Something along the lines of Nikon D3000 or Canon Digital Rebel XS or XSi (1000D/450D outside North America), which B&H photo lists around the $500 mark.

"Speed of aperture" is the biggest opening of a lens. The bigger the opening at the front of the lens, the more light it lets in. The normal measure of this is by taking the front lens size and dividing it by the focal length. So on a 50mm lens, a aperture of 1.8 means that the opening is 50/1.8 = 28mm, where an aperture of 1.4 on a similar 50mm lens means that it has a 35mm opening to let in light. Bigger aperture (lower numbers) means that the camera needs bigger lenses, which costs more. Canon's 50/1.8 costs about $100, the 50/1.4 costs about $350, and their 50/1.2 is about $1000 (I'm guestimating those numbers, but it's good enough for this discussion). Edit: The 50/1.2 is actually around $1500.

The bigger ("faster") the aperture is, the shorter the time needs to be to allow the picture to be correctly exposed at a given light-level, so a lens with bigger aperture is often called "faster", even though really nothing in the lens will be moving at the time of the photo.

If you look at a zoom lens, it will often say something like 18-55/3.5-5.6 - that means that the maximum opening when the lens is at 18mm is 18/3.5 mm (about 5mm), and at 55mm end of the lens it's 55/5.6 (or about 10mm). And the explanation as to why it's not the same all along is that the actual aperture isn't the FRONT lens [that isn't what restricts the light, that is], but some other element inside the lens.

I hope this isn't TOO technical.

--
Mats

[Bas Pels]

I always thought the fastness of a lens had to do with glass quality. the above does sound like a much better explanation, but still, does glass quality (how much light will be absorbed by the lens) have any influence?

[MatsP]

I always thought the fastness of a lens had to do with glass quality. the above does sound like a much better explanation, but still, does glass quality (how much light will be absorbed by the lens) have any influence?

Very little light is absorbed by decent glass - and by decent, I mean anything that would qualify for making clear drinking glasses or windows. The glass used for photographic lenses in general is much higher quality than this - but not because it absorbs less light.

Sharpness and several other quality factors are indeed influenced by the quality of the glass, as is weight of the lens (use thinner/high refraction lens elements, and the whole lens can be made lighter). Using higher quality glass is obviously part of difference between a low-cost, small aperture (high aperture number) lens and a high-cost, big aperture (low aperture number) as well as the size of the glass. The precision in the grinding of the lens elements, the mechanism and movement of the focusing mechanism and the interaction of the lenses in this action will also have some effect.

Oh, and aperture is non-linear. For every doubling in aperture value, the shutter speed needs to be halved.

--
Mats

[MatsP]

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aperture

--
Mats

[apistomaster]

One Camera and lense combination that takes excellent photos is the Nikon D80 body and a Tamron AF/IF 28-300 mm zoom.
Overhead slaved flashes and the front flash is mandatory for the most part. The nice part about this combination is how sharp the pohtos are from a greater distance. This can help capture more natural behavior since the photographer can be in a darkened background. Often the hard part is the fish act like they are expecting to be ed and you don't get their normal behavior.

[L number Banana]

This is somewhat waaaayyy below what most people here understand but for those of us new to camera speak, find a non-digital camera sitting around in the basement and it really shows the job of the settings.
One of my profs made us hold the camera facing ourselves, turn the flash off and see what happens with the aperture/f stops on both extreme settings. When you see what happens mechanically, it makes better sense.
As the students clicked you could hear everyone go, "oh..." A manual camera is good to see how the settings work. Don't need to take pics, just look inside at what it's doing. With a manual camera, push the button that's against the camera face beside and butted up against the lens - this will allow you to take the lens off - gently turn and it will click off. Then look inside after you change the setting. You can actually see the mirror flip open for a longer or shorter period. With the lens back on and looking into it from the front, you can see the 'iris' closing to make a tiny hole or a larger hole.
Another thing to think about is that fast lenses (ones that open really wide to let more light in) are usually more expensive and heavier.

For cheapie macro, canon powershot has a ring you can take off the front to add little magnifying lenses. You lose light in some places but with cropping, it doesn't matter much. You can also buy an adapter that allows you to flip regular lenses backwards to make a macro from a regular lens. Not near as wonderful as a real SLR but good to play with.

Most good camera stores offer courses for free or almost if you buy one of the DSLRs especially Nikon and Canon.

Just got an old Mamiya 330c non-digital in mint condition and tons of darkroom equipment, haven't a clue how to use it yet but I'd trade the whole thing for a new Nikon in a second.

A newbie explanation but maybe it will help, worked for me.

[amiidae]

Well, since PFK is online again, here is my share on basic aquatic photography.

http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk ... hp?t=42143

Cheers

ben

[apistomaster]

L number banana gave some good advice. Those kinds of mechanical observations were easy on 35 mm SLR Cameras.
My favorite film/slide fish camera was a Nikon Nikkormat equipped with Nikon 55 mm Macro lens, That camera also had a really handy depth of field preview button. It had the perfect balance between auto and manual features.

[L number Banana]

Apistomaster wrote:

L number banana gave some good advice. Those kinds of mechanical observations were easy on 35 mm SLR Cameras.
My favorite film/slide fish camera was a Nikon Nikkormat equipped with Nikon 55 mm Macro lens, That camera also had a really handy depth of field preview button. It had the perfect balance between auto and manual features

With all the old camera stuff I just got, that's one of them and it was my first real camera way back when - It was a jewel. I didn't have the macro lens but back then I was photographing owls and other night critters, awesome camera. I think it was that camera that spoiled me but ruined me for digital. I'm still trying though

[apistomaster]

Same here. If there was a digital equivalent would that be wonderful. There probably is and I just don't know it.
The Nikon Nikkormat was such an honest, straight forward and easy to use camera. The 55 mm Macro was specially designed for reproducing macros photos with a minimum of distortion.

[bronzefry]

Thanks for the info. I will definitely go look and see.

I show the Nikon Coolpix P90 at $399, $359 if ordered on line and the Nikon D90 DSLR with kit, (camera, battery and remote) is $1900.

It must be comparing apples and oranges. right? Is it just the speed of capture?

Whoa! It was $129 when I bought it!
Amanda

[MatsP]

Most (D)SLR cameras have a depth-of-field button which closes the aperture down to show you the depth of field. It can be hard to use for catfish photos, as they tend to shy away from brightly lit areas, and if you have f/16 or some such, the viewfinder tends to turn "black" (or near enough at least) if it's not quite brightly lit. On digital cameras, it's usually better to just shoot the shot on something you think will work, and then check on the display if it's OK or not.

--
Mats

[Farid]

hi apisto,
i have three IR flashlights... from nikon ;)

farid

[apistomaster]

Hi Farid,

I could tell from some of your posted photos that you were using some over head remote flashes.
Those always have a professional look.

[andywoolloo]

what do you all think of this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Digital-Stea ... 147&sr=8-1

[MatsP]

I'm sure the Sony Alpha series are good cameras, it's what used to be Minolta Dynax Digital before Sony bought the ailing Minolta company.

But at that price, I'd rather get one of these:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/5 ... _k_a_.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/6 ... 500D_.html
or
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/6 ... amera.html

These are all very good prosumer digital SLR solutions. The main difference is that extras are more plentiful for the Nikon and Canon brands than Sony/Minolta.

From a technical perspective, I'd say they are pretty much the same, optics and sensor, etc. So it comes down to personal preference as to which you really prefer. And of course what the current deal is.

Just remember that if you start buying extra bits, you soon will be locked into the system you've got. There is no way I could change from Canon to something else without a huge investment. My two most expensive lenses each cost more than the camera body itself. And I have another two lenses that I use regularly. And a flash. Replacing all those would cost about 4 times more than I paid for my EOS 50D. And that doesn't include little bits that may or may not need replacing, such as filters, tripod mounts, extension cables, remot-shutter release, etc, etc.

--
Mats

[2wheelsx2]

I agree with mats. That's a lot of $ which allows you a lot more choices. At that pricepoint, you can get all those that Mats pointed out, or you can get a D5000 http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-D5000-18-55 ... 649&sr=1-1

I'm biased as I've got that kit.

And Mats is also correct that once you start buying accessories, it never ends and you'll get pigeonholed into buying specific brands to match your camera body.

[Shane]

Yes, the cameras get expensive. My current photo kit includes three:

Nikon D 90 for fishroom use and general habitat shots.
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-D90-Digital ... 871&sr=1-1

Sealife for proper field/collecting use.
http://www.sealife-cameras.com/cameras/dc600.html

Cheap Sony cybershot for when I am tight on space/weight and want something I can keep in my cargo pocket at the ready.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... ps-sellers

I have been playing with a friend's I Phone recently and am very tempted to get one. It can function as a cheap camera, GPS, and pull up Google Earth imagery in the field. That is one handy piece of kit! Oh, and it even makes phone calls
-Shane

[Jools]

I have been playing with a friend's I Phone recently and am very tempted to get one. It can function as a cheap camera, GPS, and pull up Google Earth imagery in the field. That is one handy piece of kit! Oh, and it even makes phone calls
-Shane

You can also post to the forum and see image updates and so on as they happen by subscribing to the RSS feed!

Jools

[Farid]

hi guys,
all of the pictures below are made with my nikon D200 the lens i used was partly a older 105mm macro lens...the ray ,cichlid, betta etc. were shot with a 105/ 2,8AF-D AF-S VR this is the new macro lens from nikon...

but i can assure you that i would bring the same light and the same sharpness on the picture with any other camera that is compatible with a TTL- flash-cable. I usually work with the programm A that means i set the aperature and the shuttertime is given according to the available light. soon as i connect the flashlight the shutter time sets itself at 1/60sec. this is usually a bit too slow. so i switch to programm M...this means i set the shutter speed and the aperature manually.
depending on the aperature, the flash sends out a strong or less strong intensity of light. the more you close the aperature (higher number) the less light comes through the iris of the lens...so the flash automatically sends a stronger light to adjust the missing light !

the less you close the aperature (smaller numbers) the more light comes in and the less amount of light will be sent by the flash!!

more strong flashlight means also more depth sharpness but less visible background.
less flashlight means less depth sharpness but depending on the setting the background will be seen very well!

if any of you have a camera where you can set the shutter speed , aperature and both manually your cam is ready! what you need is a TTl flash connection- shoe to connect the TTL- cable. put the flash above the object and start playing with the different settings until the light is as you like and the depth sharpness is as you wish.
never focus on anything that is not possible do g,et sharp in the viewfinder or display!

once a setting is set to it's according surrounding this will be the only setting for this situation! soon you change the distance of the flash it will be necessary to readjust the settings ! as the distance get's bigger the light will be less strong on the object! so there are three things that have to match:
aperature, shutterspeed and the distance where the flash will be mounted

lenses that are not special macrolenses for example a 50mm f1,4 can be combines with a normal tube. the tube has no lens it simply gives more distance between the cam and the lens. through this distance of course also the light reaching the sensor will be less than without tube. the tube-lens combination will give you a bigger appearance of the object! again aperature and shutterspeed needs to be adjusted. these combinations will result best if the basic aperature of the lens is 1,4/1,8 or 2.8 cheap zoomlenses usually start with a aperature of 3,5 4,0 or even 5,6 this already eats up a lot of light needed to work well with the shutterspeeds and aperatures/depthsharpness! some of you maybe have already a beloved lens you may check for the same lens but starting with a aperature of 2.8 latest then you will be shocked how much more these lenses will cost. but the quality will be seen! i soon get a Leica Lux-D 4
http://www.dcviews.com/press/images/Leica-D-Lux-4.jpg
this little thing has all functions i need plus a flashlight shoe to connect a TTl cable. i will of course also try some shots ...just to show you that it is possible also with smaller sna

Betta HM "monster"


Notropis chrosomus


sting ray's eye


Cichlid


Leaffish

[2wheelsx2]

That stingray eye pic is very neat. Great shot.

[Farid]

hi ,
thanks a lot... but this was the easiest one as the ray just didnt move...

if i look at them phototechnic wise...i think i am quite proud of the baby leaf fish ...this little creature was only 3mm small ...not bigger! according to the system i was taking this shot the mainproblem was it's movements. than in this enlargement every millimeter is important to keep the focus sharp. plus a little bit depth sharpness...the flash was really strong as the tube was around 0,6 foot long plus the aperature was closed aswell. with these settings the only chance to get any light on the pic, the flash needs to be very close and even then quite intence!

by the way..this fish is calles Epiplatys annulatus, stays more or less at the surface (check the mouthposition )


they lay eggs in dense very fine plants at the surface like Riccia fluitans where the babies can be found after a few days


rgds
farid

[andywoolloo]

nice betta shot. is he a dragon?

[Farid]

hi andy,
all i know it's a Betta splendens halfmoon plakat "monster"

got another one (i made the background all black as there were a few iluminated particles....)


and one of my favourite "monsters"


farid

[andywoolloo]

((drools))

mighty sexy bettas!

[L number Banana]

Sorry -OT for a moment.

Jools:

You can also post to the forum and see image updates and so on as they happen by subscribing to the RSS feed!

When you're finished your 876 things on the PC to-do list, are you still going to do up an RSS How-to article or did I miss it somewhere?

[L number Banana]

Andywoolloo, here's one of our shops, so keep me in mind if our canadian\american dollar ends up looking like you could save a bundle by ordering it here. http://www.henrys.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... 0:400-600|

http://www.thesource.ca/estore/category ... SLRCameras
I've got lots of experience packing delicate things and a good paypal account with escrow services for higher priced purchases. Canadians send several lenses to people in England because of the higher prices for some but with the CAN/USA dollar differences fluctuating, don't hesitate to ask!

It's also possible to purchase from a store here over the phone with Visa etc and have a buddy mail it.

[Farid]

...one more thing about buying cameras..most people check for a set...or have questions about what camera to buy.

the light comes through the lens, the camera can be anything with the functions you need to work with...

but it's not the body that's important it's the quality of the lens. so you can get any camera (buy it seperately second hand) and get a decent lens. for example a macrolens so you dont spend money for a cheap lens you cant even use for the fishpictures...

farid

[Farid]

...one more thing about buying cameras..most people check for a set...or have questions about what camera to buy.

the light comes through the lens, the camera can be anything with the functions you need to work with...

but it's not the body that's important it's the quality of the lens. so you can get any camera (buy it seperately second hand) and get a decent lens. for example a macrolens so you dont spend money for a cheap lens you cant even use for the fishpictures...

these links will not work forever i guess...
there are lots of different bodies around ...like this one for a good price..
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-D3000-10-2-MP ... 896wt_1167

and the lens for macros pics
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-105-mm-f2-8-D ... 675wt_1167


farid