Are these Centromochlus Perugiae?

[Industrial]

A few weeks ago I was at a new LFS and saw this white woodcat. I asked how much it was (since stores don't label woodcats on the tanks most of the time) and the guy told me "I think it is a tatia cat, 20$).

Today I went back and saw it labeled as a tatia catfish and it was 7.99. I told the guy I was going to get it and when he put the net in two more came out so I bought all three. I got two females and a male.

Unsure of exactly what they were, I came back home and did a little research and I am going to have to guess Centromochlus Perugiae.

[Suckermouth]

Looks right to me.

[apistomaster]

I agree, that is a Centromochlus perugiae.
$20? Ouch! With a little luck and an on-line dealer search can sometimes turn them up for as little as $7.00 each plus freight. I miss mine but I bought 20 at $10 each about 4 years ago. I don't think you can have too many of these guys; the more the merrier.
I broke the cardinal rule, Thou shalt quarantine all new fish. I bought 8 Hemmigramus pulcher, the first Garnet Tetras I had ever seen for sale, at my LFS no less. I dumped them in with my C. perugiae, which I had for 10 months and was expectantly awaiting my first spawn, but the Tetras introduced a bacterial infection similar to columnaris and it wiped out the entire collection and the new Tetras within 5 days.
I hope you can find it some partners. At least 5 or 7 more would be nice. They are such a pretty and interesting species.

[Industrial]

The $20 was the employee's original guess. After I left the first time I guess he asked the owner about it and wrote the fish on the tank and the true price ($7.99) I got all three for like $25 dollars.

I also have a male and a female tatia intermedia. I am curious as to whether these species can be crossbred into some frankentatia if none partner up with their own species. I know a lot of hybrid fish are manually crossbred, but I couldn't do that with these guys lol.

When it comes to woodcats, I buy everything I see lol.

[Richard B]

I am curious as to whether these species can be crossbred into some frankentatia if none partner up with their own species. I know a lot of hybrid fish are manually crossbred, but I couldn't do that with these guys

I doubt that woodcats would naturally hybridise, but as to CAN they be? I suppose it might be possible with very closely related species but why would anyone want to.....strike that, the world has it's fair share of idiots.....

[Marc van Arc]

the true price ($7.99) I got all three for like $25 dollars.

That's a nice way of doing business: 8 usd each; 3 for 25?
Must be a rich guy or at least on his way to become one.....

[MatsP]

the true price ($7.99) I got all three for like $25 dollars.

That's a nice way of doing business: 8 usd each; 3 for 25?
Must be a rich guy or at least on his way to become one.....

I read that and thought the latter is including tax or some such - or someone don't know how to multiply... ;)

--
Mats

[apistomaster]

These catfish have been very affordable in this country, subject to seasonal availability.
I consider them to be the best value for their price of all the small species of Wood Catfish.
3/US$25 is a good deal, even here. I miss mine but there are so many fish but so little space to keep all of the species of fish I like.
I have decided to concentrate on wild Discus and the small plecos I have but I left a little room so I can keep a few Apistogramma spp, an occasional Tetra, rebuild my Corydoras hastatus colony and maybe something small but different sometimes. Discus require so much space and even after selling all my wild Peruvian Scale adults, 10 adult Heckel Discus and 11 F1 Mesonauta acora which just begin spawning I am hard pressed to house 22 wild S haraldi Discus and I want to get 10 wild Green Discus this year.
Only a handful of all Discus breeders are trying to breed wild Discus but there has been a resurgence of interest in wild or young from wild pairs among the Discus community.
Sorry for diverging from the central topic of this tread but my situation is not unique. many of use want to work with more species than we have available facilities to take on. Centrromochlus perugiae are amenable to being combined with some of the other fish until I find an opening to set them up in their own breeding tank. They are not expensive so breeding them is mainly a matter of personal satisfaction over the accomplishment. I rotate through species as I breed others species on my wish list. The numbers of Apistogramma spp which I have yet to breed is extensive and constantly growing longer. The same is true of Killiefish species. I have bred over 150 differently species or color forms of Killies since beginning with them in 1968. My interest in becoming seriously interested in breeding plecos is my most recent category only begun in the spring of 2006 and I have made a lot progress in a short period of time. My Discus passion is deepest and the areas where few compromises are possible.

[dconnors]

so many fish but so little space to keep all of the species of fish I like.

Truer words have never been spoken!

[Industrial]

To be specific, I got ripped off two cents. I was charged $23.99 for all three. After taxes it was exactly $25.91. Everybody happy now?

A little update, I went to a closer LFS today to get myself some feeders and saw "Honeycomb tatia catfish" This time they were $8.99 each. I got two males and a female. So now I am up to six on a 1:1 ratio. I payed $30.06 at the end for three of these catfish and a bunch of feeders.

Ps. Why would it be a bad idea to hybridize woodcats?

[apistomaster]

Hybrids of all tropical fish become a problem later for others who want to work with them.
What is done can not be undone.
You can introduce infertility problems, identification problems and too many other problems to explain here.
It simply should be avoided at any cost.
This issue goes far beyond just the wood catfish.

[dconnors]

I have to agree with Larry on this subject. Hybrid=bad

[Suckermouth]

I am curious as to whether these species can be crossbred into some frankentatia if none partner up with their own species. I know a lot of hybrid fish are manually crossbred, but I couldn't do that with these guys

I doubt that woodcats would naturally hybridise, but as to CAN they be? I suppose it might be possible with very closely related species but why would anyone want to.....strike that, the world has it's fair share of idiots.....

Actually, this has got me wondering if sympatric auchenipterids diverge in their intromittent organs, or if their parts fit equally well in any female of about the same size! *sigh* That sounds interesting.

[apistomaster]

Doesn't have to be an identical organ. Think wild swordtails hybrids with wild platies.
All common aquarium varieties of each are hybrids.
An even better example is Molly X Guppy hybrids. Wasn't easily accomplished but the fish eventually did do the deed.

[Bas Pels]

What you see mostly is that some barrier is raised in nature - either they mate in different seasons, different places or the courting behaviour excludes each other - something like that

Some insects have shaped their organs to make it impossible to mate between species (dragonflies, for instance) but vertebrated animals? I never heard about that

[apistomaster]

Some insects have shaped their organs to make it impossible to mate between species (dragonflies, for instance) but vertebrated animals? I never heard about that

We are drifting off course a little here but morphological differences of the gonopodiums between the fish in the Family, Poeciliidae diverge widely and sufficiently to prevent natural hybridization even if they are combined in an aquarium. Only among the most closely related genera are hybrids possible. The male organs of mammals also vary greatly in size and structure between genera. For example, cats compared to dogs, so Bas, yes, it is very much a barrier among vertebrates preventing hybridization.
Back on the topic of Wood Catfish, there must be significant differences among the Auchenipteridae catfishes intromissive organs which prevent successful mating except between very closely related species where other barriers such as geological barriers play the greater role in the prevention of hybrids. These more closely related species, those within the same genus and of similar size, may be capable of hybridizing within the confines of an aquarium.