Filter fish ak.a. Synodontis Petricola

[gtuser]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum and after a little advice, yesterday I was cleaning out my tank and decided to check my filter as I have just started to notice Demasoni (cichlid) fry and I thought that maybe some got into the filter.
Now I have 2x Eheim external filters (2026 I think) and upon opening and removing the white filter pad I noticed something moving. On closer inspection to my surprise I found two Petricola's, about 7mm swimming around. It took me a few minutes to get ready and a little longer to fish them out and make sure there was no more movement.
I then went down to the lower media tray and even more surprised found another petricola, this one being twice the size of the others (about 15mm) which must have escaped down to the lower level when I opened the filter.

Ok, so now I have 3 petricola fry and was left with the decision to return them to the tank or setup something for them. For fear that they may get stuck in the filter again I have currently put them in a small 10l tank with a sponge filter and a heater.

Now I have two things on my mind:
1) How do I baby proof my eheim filters (I tried some setting around the inlet/'suction pipe' but the mesh was too fine and restricted water flow)

2) What do I do with the fry. I can either return them to the main tank (Juwel Rio 180, will provide details in a mo), leave them in the 10l for a while and setup either a Juwel Rekord 70 or 125 that I have empty at the moment (will require cycling).


Any advice would be appreciated


And for those who want to keep reading...

Now as to some background, my main tank is currently as follows:
Juwel Rio 180
2x eheim filters (2026 I think, one of them being a thermofilter)
loads and loads of lava rock, from bottom to pretty much top of tank
Malawi cichlids
5x Labidochromis Caeruleus (Yellow Labs)
4x Iodotropheus sprengerae (Rusty cichlids)
13x Pseudotropheus demasoni + about 6 or more fry
and lastly but by no means least
4x Synodontis petricola
This tank has been setup as such and running since last June. I first noticed the demasoni fry last weekend and I'm guessing that the petricola joined in too or possibly before hand. As I mentioned there is alot of lava rock and at times it can be a stuggle to see any of the fish so there could well be more babies hiding in there.

As I mention I have two empty tanks, a Rekord 70 & 125 which I'm happy to setup as a grow out tank.

[MatsP]

You can probably "fry proof" the filter intake by putting a sponge around it. I don't think there is one ready-made for the Eheim, but Eheim's Aquaball filters have round filter sponges that are about the right shape/size [you may have to cut them down to the right length].

Edit: Congratulations on the spawn. And are they actually true S. petricola or S. lucipinnis?

--
Mats

[gtuser]

To the best of my knowledge it is the S. petricola, I purchased them from a breeder in the Cambridge area (well I think he was breeding these but can't remember) and if I remember correctly the main difference is that the S. petricola have smaller spots on their head compared to the rest of the body.

Will look into the Eheim aquaball or possibly construct something similar.
As it was I was up to gone midnight last night trying to get the air out of my filter and then playing about with different netting over the pipes but eveything seem to restrict the flow too much after 10-20mins. For the time being I just raised the suction pipe so isn't as near to the bottom as it was quite low before and will give the filters another check tonight.

[MatsP]

Sure, I know all about "It'll only take 5 minutes to do this", and then you are still at it 2 hours later.

When it comes to fry-in-the-filter solutions, as you say, moving the filter intake up a bit will help, but in essence, I think it's mainly fry that is not able to swim properly (i.e. just hatched or even before they hatch) that are taken into filters. I'd be more worried that the cichlids in your tank will eat the fry, personally. Most fish have a strong instinct to swim against currents, so if they start getting sucked into the filter, they will swim away.

--
Mats

[gtuser]

To be honest I wasn't expecting the S. petricola to spawn (although I hoped they would) and was more concerned about the c*****h eating the c*****d fry

Will see if I can get a suitable sponge to sit around the intake for now as since I just cleaned my filters yesterday the flow rate has returned to full rate, I could slow this done but considering the issue's I was having last night I'd rather keep the pump's going rather than risk them stopping when I'm not around.

Seems my fish are going to be keeping me busy this week as I'm going to dig out my brine shrimp kit and find some fry food and try and raise the S. petricola in a separate tank.
Next project may be to try and devise a 'fry trap' for my main tank as I no hope of catching anything with the amount of rock work that I have.

[Bas Pels]

The only time I had cich lids getting into the filter was when a pair had their larvae directly under the entrance for the filter

As the fry was unable to swim, they all ended up in the filter

Next batch however was kept slightly more sensible, and when they swam, the filter was no danger anymore. For your information, the filter was an Eheim pro II, pumping some 1000 l/hr through a 18 mm hose. The cich lids? Some SA species

I don't know about riftlake species, I can imagine deepwater species can not cope very well with currents

[gtuser]

I don't think the cichlids will have any problems with the filter as once free swimming they are staying very close to the rock work (will try and get some new pic's) and don't stray to far.
But was good that I checked anyway as I now have at least 3x S. petricola fry. Either they all got sucked up when first started moving or from eggs or they decided to check out the pipes for themselves, only thing was that one of them was twice as big as the others so not sure if from the same batch or just has been eating more.

The filter is probably a safe place for the fry, that is if they don't mind the water flow as it is dark and left over food get brought to them

I'm surprised there wasn't more in the filter as I have 2x 1000l/h filters, the cichlids don't like the fast flowing water but I try to avoid this as much as possible, I try to get the water to move in a circular motion around the tank which has been ok so far but I like to try different things now and again to see if I can encourage them to come out and be more 'free swimming'.

[Richard B]

A pic of the adult petricola will help people here confirm the ID for you if you'd like

[gtuser]

I'm 99% sure it's a S. petricola but will try and dig up an old photo as I may have one somewhere.
Wouldn't it be nice if fish would pose for a photo, or at least pause long enough for my camera to focus.

[Richard B]

Wouldn't it be nice if fish would pose for a photo, or at least pause long enough for my camera to focus.

Oh yes indeed, i can't recall ever having taken a decent pic of a catfish

[gtuser]

Ok,

So I am now pretty much certain that these are s.petricola's. I have a photo but is not the best of quality:

and close up

[Birger]

This is

Synodontis lucipinnis

The wider spaced spots on the head, the eratically spaced spots with less distinct edges on the body shows me this, also harder to tell...the mouth is narrower than in

Synodontis petricola

.

Birger

[gtuser]

Hi Birger,

Thanks for the ID, and at least now I know. Might have expected confusion in a shop but bought these privately from a guy that breeds fish (not sure if he either breed these or sold them on for someone).
Well at least they have the same requirements and I am better informed should I have babies to pass on.

Many Thanks

Gavin

[Richard B]

Hi Birger,
Thanks for the ID, and at least now I know. Might have expected confusion in a shop but bought these privately from a guy that breeds fish (not sure if he either breed these or sold them on for someone).
Well at least they have the same requirements and I am better informed should I have babies to pass on.
Many Thanks Gavin

There are quite a few people breeding these & selling them as petricola as that is the ID they got when they originally bought them - the lucipinnis name isn't well known at all outside of the CSG, PC, Scotcat etc here in the UK ,& also not in literature where fish have been incorrectly ID'd.

If i put on my critical, pessimist hat: Petricola is a beautiful desirable species that commands a high price & people pay considerable money for them. Lucipinnis are far more available & breedable without too much difficulty & IMHO not quite as good looking (although they are a super fish) - hence some people charge Petricola prices for actuall Lucipinnis.

[gtuser]

I know from the photo's that the Petricola do seem to like 'nicer' but I have had the 'Lucipinnis' for almost a year and am happy with what I have got and will make sure that if I sell any on I will id them an lucipinnis.

[Richard B]

I know from the photo's that the Petricola do seem to like 'nicer' but I have had the 'Lucipinnis' for almost a year and am happy with what I have got and will make sure that if I sell any on I will id them an lucipinnis.

Don't get me wrong - Lucipinnis are fantastic fish & probably more rewarding to keep than Petricola. Petricola are more visually pleasing but i'd probably recommend Luci's everytime.

The point i was making earlier was that some breeders sell Luci's as Pet's out of ignorance, laziness or greed (if they know they are not actually Luci's not Pet's)

[MatsP]

In general, it takes a LONG time for new names to get used commonly. It's only some 3 years or so since the description of Synodontis lucipinnis - and most people probably took absolutely no notice of it. We're catfish enthusiasts here, so we DO take notice when new catfish species descriptions come out (or names are altered).

--
Mats

[Birger]

the paper is dated 2006 so is as Mats said fairly recent.

The point i was making earlier was that some breeders sell Luci's as Pet's out of ignorance, laziness or greed (if they know they are not actually Luci's not Pet's)

Even when they know (they in this case being breeders that I know and have talked to) and have an interest in the new name they think no one will recognize the name so they worry it will hurt their "sales" and stick to what has worked in the past.

Birger

[Scleropages]

I agree with Birger. That is S. lucipinnis.

[gtuser]

Just done a full check on both filters (i.e. emptied all the water) and have found an additional two hiding at the bottom.
These are about 20mm and can now easily see that they are S. lucipinnis even at this size

[andywoolloo]

congrats !!!!

[MatsP]

I love finding fish in the filters. I didn't find any last couple of filters that I cleaned out, but I must have found more than a dozen corys in my filters over the past few years...

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Mats

[andywoolloo]

yes, it's usually cories for me in canisters. Healthy ones too, that might not have made it in the whole tank. very cool. I have found baby BN 's in the HOB filters tho. Loving it and swimming and eating. lol.

[MatsP]

I have found baby BN 's in the HOB filters tho. Loving it and swimming and eating. lol.

I have bristlenoses in 4 tanks that didn't have bristlenoses added to them by me. I suspect they crawl up the return outlets from the sump, and get over to another tank. They are definitely the "houdini fish".

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Mats