Pseudoplatystoma x Pimelodus

[bowhunter28]

I have heard a little bit about this hybrid but would like to learn more. From what i have seen it is a cross between the four line pim and a shovelnose. I love shovelnose but they get a little too big for me. Does anyone know how big this hybrid gets? And does anyone have any additional info on these guys? Thanks for your help.

[Birger]

Possibly this

Pseudoplatystoma sp_hybrid(1)

I would suspect vigorous growth and if I had to guess at a final size would pick the larger of the two.

If you like the

Pseudoplatystoma

but not the size have you looked into something like

Sorubim lima

or some of the larger

Pimelodus

? There are other choices without going the hybrid route.

You will find there is not much love here for hybrids but there are a small few that have had these often obtained accidentally or otherwise. Give them some time to see this.

Welcome to PlanetCatfish!

Birger

[bowhunter28]

Yeah i know that hybridization is a touchy subject for some. I had a four line pim a while back and really loved him. And i have always found the tiger shovelnose to be a very fascinating cat so when i found this, It really caught my interest.

[Suckermouth]

As I understand it, these fish are only very rarely ever produced. They are not anywhere near as available as the RTC x TSN hybrid. It may be nearly impossible to get this fish.

However, just eyeballing the picture here on PlanetCatfish, it looks like the hybrid in question grows significantly larger than a Pimelodus, and then you might as well go for a Sorubim.

[smitty]

Why is it that fish seem to get less respect than a dog. If you were to mate a mastiff with a beagle no would want it and it would be called a degrading name like mut. There are so many other catfish to choose from then to have to go hybryd. For the love of the hobby if not for the love of the fish I would think people should start taking a more serious look at how man tend to destroy things trying to play GOD. Good example the parrot fish. How would you feel if you could not close your mouth.

[bowhunter28]

To each his own i say. I find hybrids fascinating. A lot of hybridization comes from trying to find more efficient ways of growing food. I think that if the hybrid i am speaking was significantly smaller than a sn; then it would be really cool. It would be like a mini sn in a way. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

[MatsP]

To each his own i say. I find hybrids fascinating. A lot of hybridization comes from trying to find more efficient ways of growing food. I think that if the hybrid i am speaking was significantly smaller than a sn; then it would be really cool. It would be like a mini sn in a way. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

Of course, everyone has the right to their own opinion, and hybrids are indeed used in food culture for two (at least) reasons:
1. They grow faster. This is a great benefit in all ways.
2. They are often not fertile. This can be a good or a bad thing - if the fish is local, it's not an issue if it escapes and reproduces in the local water. If it's species that doesn't live in that place, then it's an issue if the fish reproduces naturally in the water it escaped into. So if a hybrid is infertile, then there is no real reason to worry about them escaping - they aren't going to wipe out any local species. However, it can also be used as a way to "lock in" the customer. If hormone injections are needed to produce the fry in the first place, the local population that need more food in Africa, South America etc, will not be able to produce the fry locally. This can limit the usefulness of such a scheme.

Whilst I do agree that hybrids have a place in aquaculture for food, I don't really see why they should be introduced in the onramental fish trade - the fish that do make it into the trade are undoubtedly bred for food purposes. There are all sorts of problems with hybrids in the trade - the main one is that they are often not labeled correctly [particularly nasty is when they are sold as the genuine species of one of it's parent species/conspecifics], and it can be hard enough to identify fish without having to worry about "this may be a hybrid".

--
Mats

[knifegill]

ROFL Dogs are all the same species. Like goldfish. The only way to hybridize dogs is to cross them with other canis species like coyotes, wolves, dingoes, etc.

But to hybridize different species of fish is dangerous because somewhere down the line, fertile hybrids can corrupt a captive strain making future breeding of that species a challenge. Look at Trimacs. Hard to find a pure trimac at the average pet shop. Most are flowerhorns that look like trimacs. It's a mess and it would be a shame if it happened to catfish, too.

[exasperatus2002]

Why is it that fish seem to get less respect than a dog. If you were to mate a mastiff with a beagle no would want it and it would be called a degrading name like mut. There are so many other catfish to choose from then to have to go hybryd. For the love of the hobby if not for the love of the fish I would think people should start taking a more serious look at how man tend to destroy things trying to play GOD. Good example the parrot fish. How would you feel if you could not close your mouth.

Hybrids are a mixed bag. You get frankenfish like the parrot which is gross. But you can also get something really nice like OB peacocks & Aulonocara Firefish. It's all personal preference. While I prefer keeping bloodlines pure to help reduce demand on wild populations, theres still a niche for designer pets.

[MatsP]

While I prefer keeping bloodlines pure to help reduce demand on wild populations, theres still a niche for designer pets.

Whilst there are some fish that are really on the verge of extinction in nature - but my feeling is that wild-caught fish is actually BETTER for nature than tank-bred ones. The way I see it, the native people where the fish are being caught in the wild do benefit from selling the fish. If there is nothing that the local population gets out of their river, then they are less likely to "care" when there is a threat on the river in some way. And they probably have got used to getting money for collecting fish in the river. If that's taken away in captive breeding efforts, one likely result is that the fishermen will go do other things - dig for gold, cut down rainforest, or something else that gives them money, but is more destructive to their nature.

The exception would be if the captive breeding is actually done by the same people who would otherwise catch the fish in the wild.

--
Mats

[grokefish]

Yeah i know that hybridization is a touchy subject for some. I had a four line pim a while back and really loved him. And i have always found the tiger shovelnose to be a very fascinating cat so when i found this, It really caught my interest.

Well it wont be a tiger shovelnose then would it.

[bowhunter28]

Well it wont be a tiger shovelnose then would it.

What do you mean here? It would be a mix of two fish that i really like. I just wanted some information on this hybrid. I did not want to start an argument.

[Suckermouth]

Indeed, hybrids are a hot-button topic and these kinds of things tend to make people go slightly off topic. As to your question, I doubt there have been many of these fish ever produced, and so you would be hard-pressed to even find one, much less find any information from other keepers. I also doubt that there are any shovelnoses or shovelnose-like fish that are smaller than Sorubim, although according to the Cat-eLog

Duopalatinus peruanus

stays fairly small.

[MatsP]

Well it wont be a tiger shovelnose then would it.

What do you mean here? It would be a mix of two fish that i really like. I just wanted some information on this hybrid. I did not want to start an argument.

Hmm - "Sausage ice-cream" comes to mind - it's a (translated) quote from a children's radio program in the 1960's/70's in Sweden, where the characters are discussing their favourite food, and come to the conclusion that "Sausage" and "Ice-cream" are their best choices. And then someone says "But wouldn't it be even better if we made it into Sausage flavour Ice-cream". I think combining two species of that are your favourite two species risks having the same effect - what you like from one or the other may not appear in the off-spring.

--
Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

Sorry, Bowhunter28. Stupidly, I feel like I should attempt to apologize for the community not being helpful for your purposes (not that I represent any part of it in any way, just personal). The discussion went on a tangent but still is good for many, myself included; perhaps not for you, the requester.

I can see the issue both ways but I lean towards your point of view. My reason is that I am a sucker for anything unusual, which extends far, very far beyond fish in my life. This statement will strike me down quite a few points in the PC community, I am sure, but that's the way I am. I love hybrids and I do love purebreds - there are 1000's of purebreds to choose from (praise the Lord!), all cool in their own way, but I do not shy away from getting a hybrid when I see one at a LFS.

My wife and I love our rescued 4-line pim "Cranky" (8"), who is a nervous but outgoing wreck (needs Prozac regularly but has no drug coverage) and swears profusely and loudly in catfish when caught in the net or disturbed/picked on by other fish in the tank, and both of our TSN's "Gena" (5") and "Gena Sr." (1.5').

Anyway, as you can see, I am not being helpful to you. Sorry. I sure hope someone will come through with solid info for you. Just ignore my rantings...

[bowhunter28]

Thanks Viktor, I guess i should have seen this coming when i wanted to know about a hybrid. I just saw something that piqued my interest and wanted to know more about it. Didnt realize I would be shunned for it. It happens I guess.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Well, please do not feel so bad. For one, several members cared enough to state that their views are similar to yours. They appear to be in minority but perhaps only because most of the experts and prominent figures on PC are against hybridization and they are the ones writing most stuff here. I do not think anybody knows the true statistics but if you think you are shunned for it, then I am too - but I do not think so of myself. Vast majority of folks here are tolerant and considerate and somewhat democratic or at least try their best to be such

[Marc van Arc]

I don't think you're being shunned.
The problem with the fish of your choice is that nobody on PC has ever kept or currently keeps it, so no-one is able to give you proper advice. And thus - given the sentiments about hybrids - people are trying to talk you into genuine species. Some people are indeed more explicit than others, but imo they are all trying to be helpful.
It will be quite a quest to find one, yet I hope you'll once be able to keep the fish of your choice.

[wrasse]

I don't think you are being shunned either.
The ultimate catfish for me is Leiarius Pictus, but I can't accommodate one - yet. I've seen small specimens that are soooo tempting. If there was a smaller species that matched its looks, I'd go for it. Possibly Ageniosus Magoi/ Marmoratus, but I've not seen one in the flesh to be sure.
My view is that nature does it better, so why mess with it. Having said that, I have an old veil-tail zebra lace angel that's a beauty - although it doesn't compare with an altum.

[racoll]

I have heard a little bit about this hybrid but would like to learn more. From what i have seen it is a cross between the four line pim and a shovelnose.

Okay, getting back to square one ...

Bowhunter28, how do you know about this fish?

Are they being sold locally to you, or on the web?

How do you know what the parent species really are?

Do you have any pics?

They may just turn out to be TSN/RTC hybrids, but without an ID on the fish you might buy, it may be hard to give advice.

[bowhunter28]

I was looking at the Cat e log on this site and there was a picture of this cat and i immediately bacame interested. I then Did some searching on the net to find any information at all but what i found was minimal. Thought i would ask you guys if anybody knew anything about it.

[racoll]

I was looking at the Cat e log on this site and there was a picture of this cat and i immediately bacame interested. I then Did some searching on the net to find any information at all but what i found was minimal

Ah, in that case, you will have a zero chance of finding it! I've never seen these in the shops.

Appears to be a hybrid of Psuedoplatystoma and Pimelodus sp., possibly Pimelodus blochii.

Looks like a "random" photo from somewhere, and someone has taken an educated punt on an ID, which may be completely wrong.

It does look like there is some Pseudoplatystoma in there somewhere, so I would expect it would get to a pretty decent size - much bigger than is appropriate for any home aquarium.

Sorry.

[bowhunter28]

Well thank you for your help. I think that you might be right about the size thing. And also it doesnt look like it would be easy to find anyways.

[Marc van Arc]

Looks like a "random" photo from somewhere

The picture is from http://www.raubwelse.de
The owner has a reliable reputation.
Check the Bildergalerie if you like.

[MatsP]

Here's the Raubwelse image:


--
Mats

[racoll]

The picture is from http://www.raubwelse.de
The owner has a reliable reputation.
Check the Bildergalerie if you like.

I wouldn't like to cast aspersions on anyone's reputation. I guess I meant it was a "random" fish rather than a "random" photo.