what tankmates for Cephalosilurus apurensis?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Got yah! See, now I learned a tad bit more. Little by little with big help from you, Mats, and others....

90% of misunderstanding apparently hinged on my WRONG assumption that DATZ is a scientific journal or at least an earnest read for hobbyists bordering a serious source of well-trusted knowledge...

BTW, being a scientist myself, I must with authority profess that 90% of stuff published in the journals of my profession, i.e., chemistry and physical chemistry and chemical physics, is NOT trustworthy and a lot of #'s are a even fiction I hope to be wrong but I assume this holds for other sciences.

[MatsP]

If by journals, you mean REAL journals of Ichthyology/Taxonomy, then I believe the data is correct. It's a long time since I had anything to do with chemistry or physics or any combination thereof [in anything other than experiencing the effects].

And, by the way, I think DATZ is worth reading [if you can read German]. But it's not a scientific paper journal, any more than TFH or Practical Fishkeeping are in our respective countries. It's a fish hobby magazine, written by good journalists/fishkeepers. The fact that [from what I hear], it's one of the best ones doesn't really classify it as a "scientific journal", however.

--
Mats

[Bas Pels]

Actually, I'm happy DATZ is not a scientific paper

Science is, after all, boring. Lots of tables, very, very carefull conclusions, and no seculationswhat so ever.

We, hobbyists, have to make do with what we know. Personally, I'm doing a lot with sub-tropical fishes, I use climate information from the internet, for the temperature (January is obviously different from December) geologic info for the water chemistry and so on

The results are nice: I breed quite some fish, keeping them way diffenrt from all books I ever found

But science? That would mean control groups, and 3 or 4 alternatives. No way, that would not be fun

[MatsP]

Bas, I completely agree that DATZ wouldn't have many readers if it was a taxonomic/ichthyological science journal, and it would be very booring for us all (e.g. the L-numbers would probably never have come to life).

I'm not asking for that.

--
Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

It is not intrinsically embedded in science to be boring as a lot lies in how it is presented and to who - there are ways to teach bears about gravity if one is a talented teacher and a resourceful communicator

Anyway, let me go back to the roots: the apurensis just went into the pond. I thought he was that yellow normally but within minutes he started to darken up and now has very dark specks or mottled areas all over his body looking more and more as the pics in Cat-eLog and Yellowcat's cat.

He would not take food in the bucket. Now the color change tells me he was pretty stressed all this time. Poor guy!

Just before I let him in, I had fed the two gars and the TSN to a nearly spherical state body-shape-wise The gars took no interest in apurensis but TSN investigated him quite a few times. At first, apurensis was still stressed and did not respond much to TSN's curiosity. After 10-15 min, he would charge at the TSN when TSN tries to strengthen his relationship with him and TSN would dart away, sometimes hitting the padded pond walls So far, so good.

Apurensis is exploring his new 6' x 7' (pond section) quarters, I guess looking for a good hideout. Should I get a clay planter of sorts for him? Would any ceramic or clay planter work? The concerns are (1) will they leach undesirable stuff into the pond water and (2) if they can be broken, the edges and ends are often very sharp - is there a concern there?

[yellowcat]

Viktor, I've found that with all my pseudopimelodus species that they very much enjoy a deep gravel substrate combined with large smooth pieces of African driftwood (bogwood) in a dark corner of their tank and will dig out a 'nest' or hiding spot therein. They will, every so often rearrange the driftwood and the pit dug into the gravel to suit their liking at the time. It's amazing how they are able to move large pieces of wood around as you'll find out, they really don't like light and perhaps like to move things around as much for shade than for security or a hidden ambush point or maybe it just gives them something to do...

[yellowcat]

Anecdotal photo of a 24" apurensis next to a 30" RTC...

[Viktor Jarikov]

Thank you, Yellowcat! Wow. Nice pic. Your quarters? By anecdotal do you mean story-worth (rare) and relevant?

The pond has ~1.5" of smooth gravel on average. Is that deep enough? How deep ideally?

No wood though, but pond has a partially closed top from 3 sides in his section, one overhangs the water by ~2.5 feet, the second by ~1.5', and the third by 0.5' ----> pl-l-l-lenty of dark places and corners, plus wrinkles in the liner, some are big flaps. There are half a dozed big rocks - most of them holding the divider in place. There is a bunch of plastic plants, both upright and floating. There is a submersible pump in that section too.

Will he find a good spot to call home?

Do you think I should get the wood? It is quite expensive here, like a bulky piece of mopany wood say 1'-2' long, more or less curved and branched, would run $50-100. Then you have to presoak it for a long time to get rid of all color - I have no carbon in my filter. Eventually, the wood will break down too. Not easy to find it all smooth - some parts are almost always sharp - the way the fish dart sometimes in there (for fun ? or during disputes) I am afraid they will get a good abrasion or take their eye out.

So these are minuses. Did I miss any? What are the pluses beyond what's been mentioned?

[yellowcat]

No, the pic isn't mine, just something in my archives from around 3 years ago I found on another site. By anecdotal I meant not scientifically verifiable. If I recall those fish were in something like a 1000 gal. tank. As far as gravel depth, my tank has at least 4" and she easily dug down to bare glass and pushed gravel out a high bank surrounding her hole. You could use some large rocks in a corner but be warned that they are really good at moving rocks around too and could be injured or killed as a result. I lost my prized batrochoglanis villosus when it tried to re-excavate it's den next to rocks. Yes the driftwood you mentioned is very expensive here too but they do seem to like it and it doesn't break down easily or create water chemistry problems but it does need to be soaked a while to reduce the staining properties. When I get new driftwood I get out the power sander or just sandpaper and remove all sharp edges then boil it in a lobster pot for a couple of hours to leach out some of the brown stain which helps. Since my hobby is almost all catfish I've alway tried to create the perfect catfish hole in my tanks but they seem to have their own ideas...

[Viktor Jarikov]

Yeah, they do, don't they!? Talking about a perfect catfish hole as close to natural as possible under circumstances: my apurensis so far chose the top of the submersible pump between the outlet pipe and the wall (not that the pipe is wide though, only 1.5" ID - the spot does not look secured at all) How is that for natural? He looks comfy though, does not even mind flashlight in the face...

I do not get it: there are far better places in there I'd choose if I were a catfish. But I am not.

I will ponder on more gravel and the wood or at least some sort of cover, like the amphora in Wolfgang's paper that would replace both (the more gravel and the wood). I also discarded the idea of more big loose rocks thinking of the same fears that you mentioned.

So far things are quiet down there. The gars and the TSN have never eaten so much before in one setting - they look and act slow, heavy, and sleepy, just like people after a major case of gluttony.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Well, now he is getting smarter in my silly human eyes - he wedged himself between a large 20-lb rock and the pond wall, the third wall of his hideout is the divider, so whoever approaches him will be right in his "pretty" face and the gaping mouth.

So, will anybody spill the beans about the clay or ceramic planter or amphora?

((((((from one of the posts above: Apurensis is exploring his new 6' x 7' (pond section) quarters, I guess looking for a good hideout. Should I get a clay planter of sorts for him? Would any ceramic or clay planter work? The concerns are (1) will they leach undesirable stuff into the pond water and (2) if they can be broken, the edges and ends are often very sharp - is there a concern there?)))))

[yellowcat]

Since I like your fish, here's some thoughts. You could consider a length of pvc pipe, the specific type approved for domestic water use. Another possibility might be a short length of red clay sewer pipe which is very heavy duty and unglazed and available in large diameters. Any large clay pot designated for home cooking would likely be safe. I would be cautious regarding some glazed ceramics for garden use as they are likely imported from countries that still use lead glaze. There are folks that produce special clay pots and fake logs for ciclid breeding made from terra cotta but they're too small for your cat. I'm sure others have better ideas, knowledge and solutions that I'm not aware of as my experience in this area is zero...

[Birger]

So, will anybody spill the beans about the clay or ceramic planter or amphora?

If it has the same coloration and is unfinished...like this http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=8692 you can consider it safe...no leaching. Of course the one in the picture is only small but is being used as an example...larger pots of the same material can be had.

Harmfull effects it could have...if broken could it puncture your pond?
Would the TSN try to eat a broken piece if it somehow gets shattered?

The red clay sewer pipe mentioned in the post above is a good idea!

Birger

[Viktor Jarikov]

I appreciate your feedback, guys!