Catfish for 42 liter tank?

TalenT · Post by **TalenT** » 21 Sep 2003, 20:39

Hi.

I wonder if you guys can give me some good suggestions on what species i can house in a 42 liter tank, iÂ´m particularly interested in south american species... but everything is of interest, the main criteria is that they dont get too big for the tank.

I was wondering, could i have some (african, i know) Microsynodontis sp. in it?

Post by **Silurus** » 21 Sep 2003, 21:06

You can try some Microglanis or Corydoras. Microsyondontis will do very well, but you must make sure that there are no tankmates large enough to eat them.

TalenT · Post by **TalenT** » 21 Sep 2003, 22:04

Thanks for the quick answer!

Should i get a small group of Microsynodontis, or do they prefer to be alone?

If they dont like to be alone, how many can i house in such a small tank?

Post by **Silurus** » 21 Sep 2003, 22:09

They are very sociable, although given to occasional skirmishes, so you should get a group whenever possible.
How many you put in a tank really depends on the species of Microsynos that you have. The true M. batesii is the largest and will max out at 10 cm. I have the smaller M. cf. polli from the Congo that will reach less than half that size, and I have a dozen of them in a 10-gallon (28-liter) tank.
Since there is more than enough room in there, I could have easily put another dozen in there (there are no other tankmates).

Post by **Dinyar** » 22 Sep 2003, 03:16

Yikes! And I thought MY tanks were crowded!

Maybe you should put a "Don't try this at home!" disclaimer on that, Silurus. These extreme sports are best left to those like you who really know what they're doing.

Dinyar

Post by **Barbie** » 22 Sep 2003, 05:04

When (and you notice I'm being confidently optimistic) you get those microsynos to spawn, I'd like to be put on the list of people in line to buy some

Barbie

Post by **Silurus** » 22 Sep 2003, 10:13

Barbie,

I'm afraid your optimism is misplaced. I like to keep catfish, but I never take any extra effort in trying to breed them (unless they do it accidentally).
Since the chances of an accidental spawning are miniscule, pm me and I can tell you where I got those Microsynos from (but I don't think they are in stock right now).

Post by **Barbie** » 22 Sep 2003, 19:36

Thanks HH

I actually think I remember you talking about them before you got them, but I'll definitely pm you for details. Not that I have any business buying fish for a bit, hehe. The fish I have are a bit overcrowded while they wait for the 180 to be delivered, let alone trying to find space to add more. That's why its a nice little dream to wait for yours to spawn

Who knows, maybe you'll get sick of yours at some point and they'll need a home! *dreaming again*

Barbie

Post by **Silurus** » 22 Sep 2003, 19:44

Barbie,

Not very likely that I will part with mine. I have been dreaming about Microsynos ever since Shane took me to That Fish Place in Lancaster five years ago and I saw my very first one (live or otherwise) there (I couldn't have bought it of course, since I was travelling a lot then).
Of course, I also saw my first long-tailed banjo cat there as well, and I'm still dreaming about owning one...
Expecting your pm anytime...

TalenT · Post by **TalenT** » 22 Sep 2003, 21:06

Ok, thanks again for the answers.

The LFS had just sold their last ones when I was there a few days ago, the label was still on the tank they had been keeping them in. The label were only refering to them as "Micrasynodontis" (misspelled and all). And the shopkeeper had no more information about which species they had. I will go to that LFS this weekend again and see if they can get hold of a few more. Cute little things, those Microsynodontis.

Any suggestions on tankmates, is the tank too small for a small group of Eutropiella sp? (sorry not sure about the spelling)

Post by **Silurus** » 22 Sep 2003, 23:02

The tanks a little small for Pareutropius. You can probably accomodate three in there, but ideally, they need a lot more room for swimming.
If available to you, you should try some of the smaller African barbs like Barbus jae. They are really stunning in color (under the right water and light conditions) and would complement the Microsynos nicely.

TalenT · Post by **TalenT** » 23 Sep 2003, 19:46

Yeah, i've been thinking of those small african barbs, barbus barillius (again not sure about spelling) and such. Arent there some miniature Distichodus tetras too?

One more question about Microsynodontis: What about watercurrent? I've got a rather big internal eheim filter (mod 2009 from back in the 80's i think) in that 42l tank, it's turned down to the minimum, but it still creates quite a current in the tank.

Post by **Silurus** » 23 Sep 2003, 21:20

You needn't worry about the current, as Microsynos love a current (some of them are actually found in rapid stretches of rivers).
I don't have experience with the smaller Distichodus(like D. dimidiatus), so I cannot say for sure whether they would make good tank mates.

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 24 Sep 2003, 08:17

The smallest Distichodus is D noboli (unless they changed the name, that is); about 8 cm or so.

HOWEVER, it's a feisty beast, and it should be kept in a group, of at least (!!) 8 fish. Distichodus kept in smaller groups tend to get quite aggressive to each other, and single specimen can terrorize a whole tank.

Add to that a really ferocious appetite for ALL plants, including Anubias and such, and you see, these fish are only suited for big tanks, with no plants, and sturdy tankmates.

TalenT · Post by **TalenT** » 24 Sep 2003, 20:57

Well, It's just great to have you guys here to give good answers to all of ones questions. I certainly did not know that the smaller Distichodus could be so troublesome, i was suspecting that they would eat plants, but aggression? Well, i believe you.

Good thing that the microsynodontis will enjoy the current, i cant't wait til i get my hands on a few of them.

Once again...thanks guys for all the info!!

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 25 Sep 2003, 11:26

There are however plenty African Characins or Barbs that can be used in such a small tank without any danger to plants or Microsynodontis.

Some might be hard to get (scarce in the trade), but you might run into:

Barbus barilioides; African Tiger Barb. A very peaceful, virulent red shoaler with a very placid nature. reaches 2"or so.

Barbus gelius, a tiny Afrcan Barb, very peaceful, no true beaty, but a dependable little fish. Shoaler too.

Barbus hulstaerti

like the other two, very peaceful.

These three African dwarf Barbs should be kept in planted tanks, not overly lit, and with neutral to slightly acidic, soft water. The groups should be anything from 5 and up. They're omnivores wich eat tiny invertebrates, flakefood etc. All very peaceful. Excellent companions for Microsyno's!
Other African Barbs are just as nice, but bigger (B holotaenia, B bimaculatus, B einthoveni etc).

Congo tetra's are often too big and too active for a small tank, with one exception:

The Blue Congo tetra. Hemigrammopetersius caudalis.
The smallest of the -available!- Congo tetra's and very peaceful. Unlike the Barbs, this one dwells near the mid-upper waterlayer. behaviour and requirements are similar, but more lively. And a group should contain 7+ fish.

For those who like things weird, you might think about addiong a pair of these:

Microctenopoma ansorgii, the Dwarf Bushfish.
very placid, nests on the surface and ignores bottomdwellers. It's tiny size ( 2 1/2") makes it harmless.

Post by **Silurus** » 25 Sep 2003, 11:46

Barbus gelius, a tiny Afrcan Barb

That's where you are wrong. Puntius gelius is an INDIAN fish.

Barbus jae is African, though.

Neolebias ansorgii is another candidate:

TalenT · Post by **TalenT** » 25 Sep 2003, 17:56

I was considering buying a gang of Barbus barilioides a few years ago, for a larger african tank project i was planning.

Hey! That Microctenopoma looks very interesting!

What about other african cats that will go well with microsynos (smaller Synodontis sp perhaps), any suggestions?

Btw what happened to the genuine Synodontis nigriventris? One could see them everywhere in fishstores back in the 80's but nowadays (at least in northern Sweden, where i lived up until recently) you only see S.multipunctatus, young S.eupterus & S.ocellifer and the occasional S,decorus and S.angelicus.

S.eupterus, S.ocellifer and some other unrecognisable oddballs are sold under the same name: Upside down catfish or Synodontis sp.

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 25 Sep 2003, 18:02

oooops
guess I got carried away a bit.

Those Neolebias are pretty neat. I always found them to be pretty rare in the trade, however and quite fragile. and very, very shy, even more in hiding than a lot of catfishes.....

I found a few other smaller Characins from Africa that could be used;
Nannaethiops unitaeniatus

and lately two very tiny Africans show up over here in the trade;
Lepidarchus adonis and Ladigesia roloffi. very small, very peaceful too; groupers.

and Nannocharax was available a while ago, maybe there too?

Another great group of overlooked fishes that give "cover" to draw out catfishes, are of course the Killifishes.
next to seasonal Killi's (wich should be kept by specialists not in a catfishtank), there are three genera wich often show up in the trade. Due to their very mid- or upperdwelling habits, small size and lively behaviour well suited:

Epiplatys spp

Pachypanchax spp

Aplocheilichthys spp.

The first two killi's should be kept as a harum (1 male, more females), as males can be a bit of a macho. the last genus is -obvious- a shoaling fish.

ps I like that Barbus jae. Must be a close relative to barilioides; never saw it before.

Post by **Silurus** » 25 Sep 2003, 18:05

What about other african cats that will go well with microsynos (smaller Synodontis sp perhaps), any suggestions?

Parailia are probably the best. A 42-liter tank isn't very big, though, so you probably can only put a few in there comfortably.

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 26 Sep 2003, 15:06

I dont know how you guys did it, but IME Parailia and Physailia (renamed??) are both very fragile, very easily stressed and if you keep them in groups smaller than 7-8 or so, they die one by one, till they're all gone.

definitely a shoaler for a bigger tank with pristine waterconditions (zero nitrates, zero nitrites, zero ammonia etc), very easygoing tankmates and some -not overly much- current. I wouldn't try to keep those in a 42 liter. more of a fish for a 3-4 feet tank with a powerhead and state of the art filtration.

compared to those Eutropiellus (Pareutropius) were dead easy to keep. That one too, does much better in a 1 meter tank (or bigger); a group of 8 or more, and some current.

TalenT · Post by **TalenT** » 28 Sep 2003, 12:50

ok guys, thanks for the help!
I went to the LFS yesterday and ordered a group of microsynos. Will arrive next week...cant't wait!!