plec to breed?

[pest control]

hi, i have been offered a nearly new juwel rekord (i've not seen it yet, but it's either the 60 or 80). i would like to breed a plec species in this tank to make some money to fund my other tanks, as i'm a bit low on budget ATM. the tank will be full of mosses, and i would also like to breed a shrimp species in it. i'm looking for a species that is easy to breed, and i can make quite a lot of money by selling the babies. all the babies will have to stay in that tank until they are sold, although i could probably fit quite a few in my 210l and 120l tanks. i could either leave the parents in the tank or put them in there to breed and then move them out.

any ideas?

cheers

[Suckermouth]

I would not go into plec breeding expecting a profit if you haven't bred plecs before. Having gotten a couple breeding pairs for a pretty high initial cost, you're not going to see a profit until a couple of broods in. For most fish where you're likely buying juvenile or otherwise immature fish, you will have to get them into breeding condition, which may also take some time.

That said, your best bet is to start off with common bristlenoses to get your feet wet (so to speak). You won't make much money from selling the babies but it'll give you the experience you need to raise other species. From then, you may choose more expensive Ancistrus, Hypancistrus, Peckoltia, and such.

[MatsP]

There is a pretty simple relationship between price and easy to breed. The easier it is to breed a fish, the lower the price. Ok, so it's not quite as simple as that, since there are some fish that are near impossible to breed, but you can buy the wild parents for between £5 and £10 ($8-15), but nearly no one is breeding them - they aren't easy to breed, but plenty of them in the wild, and pretty hardy.

However, because the selling price of fish increases less rapidly than the difficulty in breeding them, the best way to make money is to breed the easiest to breed fish -

Ancistrus cf_cirrhosus

- if you are lucky, you can make a bit extra money by breeding one of the less common forms (albino, long fin, piebald, super-red, etc).

The other factor of course is the fact that the bigger the price tag, the fewer potential customers you get - more so if you want to sell a large number at once - there are only so many shops that can pay out cash/shop credit for fish worth £1000/$1500, where the number of shops happy to give you £50-100/$80-150 in credit are much more likely. And most shops won't think twice about stocking fish that sells for £5/$8 or so, where stocking more than a couple of fish that retails at £50-100/$80-150 each is someting only a few shops will do.

You can of course sell fish privately - this, like selling a car privsately, is a matter of "money vs. convenience". If you sell two bags of juvenile fish to the shop for £0.50/$0.75 each, you get, in one go, enough money to buy a bit of food or some such. But you could make more money by selling them yourself to customers for £3/$5 each. However, you are unlikely to sell more than one or two at a time, and you have to accept people coming to your house, rather than just making one phone call to the LFS asking if they are happy to take some of your fry...

For more expensive fish, you will probably HAVE to ship fish (and sell privately), because the number you can sell locally is simply too limited.

And, as Suckermouth says, if you want to make money, there are certainly better business models than breeding fish - plecos or otherwise. But the easier to breed, the easier they are to contribute some money back to the drain tat is fishkeeping... ;)

--
Mats

[pest control]

thanks, i really like the look of the lemon bristlenose, would they be suitable? i know i won't make loads of money, but a bit would be nice. i'm also going to grow loads of taiwan moss and mini spiky moss in it, and i'm thinking there may be more money in that. i know what you mean about going into breeding plecs to make a profit with no experience, but i've done a lot of research (especially Ancistrus). i rang a fish shop today to sell some kribs, and i also asked how much they'd buy baby lemon bristlenoses for, and they said £1 each, is that a rubbish price?

if i were to breed lemon bristlenose catfish, then would the juwel rekord 60 be big enough to breed them in? i could fit some babies into my other tanks, and if i was getting too many babies then i could separate the adults.

cheers

[kizno1]

I agree BNs will be the best way to go. £1 isnt great but its not to bad. For common BNs one of my lfs gives me £2.50 and the other £1 but it varies alot depending on how many other people around you breed them and how easy they are to get ahold of.

[pest control]

hi, do lemon bristlenose sell for more than common? and would £1 be a not bad price for lemon bns, or is that the common? and about how much could i sell them to the public for?

also, would i be able to keep a breeding pair + fry in a juwel rekord 60, and how many fry would i be able to keep in there with the parents at any one time? i'd have a lot of filtration.

cheers

[2wheelsx2]

You also have to look at your local market. Around here, almost all the hobby breeders have dropped out of the BNP market (unless they are long finned) because the market is saturated and people are not even able to sell the juvies for $3 each because there are so many available. So if they're readily available where you are, you might want to consider something else.

[pest control]

hi, i've never seen lemon bristlenose plecs around here, but there are quite a lot of common bristlenose plecs about. would that put the price down?

cheers

[MatsP]

Does "lemon bristlenose" mean the same thing as an albino bristlenose? If so, most shops charge roughly the same price.

Gary (2wheelsx2) makes a good point: markets get saturated if you have good success. There are only so many people who want fish of any particular type.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

In some places you can't give common BN's away!!!

The lemon bristlenose are available & the cheapest i can see are £4 each from private breeders if you buy 5 or more - retailers will sell these for a lot more - they are pretty easy to breed if you get a pair

[pest control]

thanks, i've asked around a bit, and there doesn't seem to be a great market for lemon bristlenose around here. i'm starting to think that maybe corys would be a better idea. i've had more experience with corys as well, so i'd be more confident with them. would it be a good idea to open a new topic in the cory section?

cheers

[kizno1]

When you say lemmon BN are you talking about

L144

? If it is then they sell well around here so you might get a good price for them depending how many other people breed them around you. Corys would work but again you will want a slightly rare type because the common peppers, bronzes and albinos are every where.

[pest control]

hi, i was talking about the l144. i don't think they are a good idea now though, as i've been told that i'l run out of room quickly with the fry. i think the corys are a better option. it's been suggested that i get sterbai, panda, wiezamani, green lasers or gold lasers as they sell best in my area. i'll start a new topic in the cory section.

cheers for your help

[MatsP]

Sorry to be pedantic:

Ancistrus sp(L144)

is an extremely rare fish, and probably not available anywhere in the UK. The similar fish that we call

Ancistrus sp(4)

is relatively easy to find, but a lot of people will pay more for tis fish than a common albino for example.

--
Mats

[pest control]

oh, i thought that they were the l144.

[MatsP]

oh, i thought that they were the l144.

Sure. Most people do. Until very recently, we had them as L144 on Planet Catfish too. Until at the CSG conference where Ingo Seidel pointed out that Mark Walters' fish weren't L144 as he thought they were.

--
Mats

[pest control]

hi, i spoke to a fish shop today, and the guy was really helpful. he said that plecs are a good way to go. he said that he would buy as many bristlenoses as i could breed for about 50p each at 1". would they be a good way to go do you think? and about how many could i house in a rekord 60 at a time (including parents)? i could put quite a few into my main tanks as well.

cheers

[MatsP]

I started breeding common bristlenoses in a 96 liter tank, which is about 40% larger than the Juwel 600 tank. It meant 40% water changes three times a week to keep the fry growing well. But if you have a good external filter, it will add a bit to the water volume in the tank, and keep you from having to clean the filter every week.

--
Mats

[kizno1]

Sounds good to me. I used to breed mine in a 30G and when the eggs hatched mover them to a 15G Which i did daily 25% WC on and that worked fine. The fry and parents are just left in the 30G now because ive sold most of the fish in there ready to set up my 150G