M or Fm zebra?

TwoTankAmin · Post by **TwoTankAmin** » 22 Oct 2010, 22:13

Hi guys- just one fish, please give it your best opinion on sex- the fish is about 2.75 inch TL

jac · Post by **jac** » 23 Oct 2010, 06:22

Difficult one....

On head shape I would tend to say female. But looking at it's thick pectorialfins and the odonthodes on it I would say male.
But wait on what the others say please

Zebra46 · Post by **Zebra46** » 23 Oct 2010, 08:41

jac wrote:Difficult one....

On head shape I would tend to say female. But looking at it's thick pectorialfins and the odonthodes on it I would say male.

Agreed, like to add the male bodyshape as well and the lack of pronounced odonthodes on the gills.
Can you tell something on behaviour?
Wouldnt be surprised if this would be one we sex as male and then suddenly laying eggs

Sanplec · Post by **Sanplec** » 23 Oct 2010, 11:40

Male for sure

claro · Post by **claro** » 23 Oct 2010, 12:36

female

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 24 Oct 2010, 01:33

I lean towards it being a male. It looks a little thin but it's pectoral fins are pretty stout and it seems to have a tapered plan view shape which is one factor I consider. Females tend to bulge between and behind their pectorals but another couple months of TLC would probably make sexing much easier. It is a hard one to call at this point.

Hi claro, What is the pleco in your avatar photo? It is a pretty cool looking fish.

Post by **Barbie** » 25 Oct 2010, 07:46

I'm going to say it is a male, but I would like to see how it looks after a few months in warmer water with rich foods to be positive ;).

Barbie

alesi · Post by **alesi** » 25 Oct 2010, 15:02

I say male for now until it is well fed and to decide thereafter.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 25 Oct 2010, 17:35

I bet we already have the opinions of a couple "man" years of cumulative fish breeding experience leaning towards it being a male so the chances are pretty high that is what it is

claro · Post by **claro** » 26 Oct 2010, 20:07

Hi Larry,

in my avatar is L 401 (Hypancistrus sp. L333 "New Alenqer"). Look et his parents and brothers and sisters here:
http://www.hypancistrus.eu/hypancistrus-sp-l401/
There are all normal coloured catfishes. Only once has wide yellow stripes.
He has now just about 6 cm.

Milan

Post by **Barbie** » 26 Oct 2010, 20:27

Very nice! Nicer knowing I have a group of these fish sitting downstairs that I haven't given caves! I'll have to get on that ;).

Barbie

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 27 Oct 2010, 06:09

Hi Milan and Barbie,
This is getting curiouser and curiousor.
I asked for help on this board to identify these two Plecos, both Hypancistrus species unknown to me.
I had only one juvenile of this fish:

And had 12 of these adults:

the consensus was that each was L401.

The interestingly and unusually marked fish each of you have seems very different to me from my "L401".
I sincerely hope that you each are able to reproduce them.
They appear a lot more like a Peckoltia species to me but whether I am right or wrong, it is a species which would certainly become very popular and desirable by many of us enthusiasts of the smaller, attractive pleco species. It is like a reverse colored Leopard Frog, L134; almost. But definitely different. Certainly much different from any of the fish I had that so many of you said were l401's.
Discus Hans sent me set a photos of some very unusual L134 he imported about 2 years ago. They were mostly yellow with much fewer but still broad brown bands and spots than the typical l134 but they were L134 without a doubt but not similar to the fish shown above except in general shape. He only had the one shipment of those different apearing l134. I thought perhaps they had been collected further away or from a more isolated location than wherever the majority of the imported wild L134 are collected. The Rio Tapajos is certainly a large enough river system for there to be local and unique variations of the Leopard Frog or I should say, Peckoltia compta
I really hope for your breeding success.
And Barbie, if you know how and were I might be able to acquire any of these please send me an e-mail.
BTW, because i have acquired a number of F1 Nhamunda Royal Blue Discus juveniles and have access to 2 very nice forms of F1 S. aequifasciata Green Discus, I really need to find a home for 5 adult wild Alenquer Discus I have to make room for so many f1 Blues and greens. PU only but I am willing to let them go for $225, Here are the fish. I am willing to trade.

You have my address.

Post by **Barbie** » 27 Oct 2010, 07:17

Dale says this H. zebra has a female vent (I really am a terrible fish perv), so I would have to assume that won't change with condition like some of the other aspects can. Congrats TTA

.

Barbie

TwoTankAmin · Post by **TwoTankAmin** » 27 Oct 2010, 16:49

Barb- I may be the only person you know who spawns plecos and is also absolutely incapable of sexing them. A long time ago I gave up trying and learned to rely on behavioral cues more than physical features. My solution to this deficiency as a fish keeper is to buy fish in groups and let them sort it out or else buy proven fish from people who can sex them properly.

I have found there is one fail safe method for sexing them- the fm lays the eggs and the male does all the rest.

Thanks for the input and thanks Dale too.

ps- lovely discus Larry

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 27 Oct 2010, 18:49

Hi TTA,
Thanks. I have always liked the red body color some Alenquer Discus have. They just haven't bred within the 2 years I have tried and I have always been able to breed wild Discus within 8 months after receipt. If they don't spawn by 8 months and are in good condition, then there may not be any females among them.
Wild Discus are hard to sex. Probably more so than the smaller plecos but I can usually figure it out based on behavior and a few subtle traits only experience can teach.

My approach to sexing Plecos is very similar to your way but sometimes they can be very obvious but some species and some times there are some that are harder to sex than others.
I am only about 70% correct among my own oldest F1 L134.
Both you and Barbie have kept far more H. zebra than me so I would place more weight on you twos' impressions than those who have not bred them. I can use the "vent exam" approach with wild Discus in good condition as one of the factors I consider but I haven't ever become good at that method among plecos. But I have been breeding wild Discus since 1969 but only began collecting plecos with intent to breed since 2006. In time, many subconscious factors go into sexing fish with minor sexual dimorphism gained only through enough experience.
I tend to use as large a group of a species as I can put together and then begin removing those I believe are surplus males to end up with my final breeding groups. That can be a couple years if starting out with 5 cm L260 or H. zebra for me.

jac · Post by **jac** » 27 Oct 2010, 18:51

Started as a gender topic of a L46, then switcht over to L401 and now going on about discus

I think you are getting a bit side tracked....

TwoTankAmin · Post by **TwoTankAmin** » 27 Oct 2010, 18:55

Well maybe when it comes to talking fish and sex its hard to limit the scope

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 27 Oct 2010, 20:54

Hi Jac,
I apologize if digressing detracted from the value of this thread to you.
TTA, Barbie and myself have been fish friends for quite a while so we know something about the different interests we each have or share and some specific topics do lend themselves to comparisons with similar difficulties we may have encountered with our other fish experiences.
A little digression did not do irreparable harm to this thread. TTA started the thread but if you had started it I wouldn't have been as likely to stray away from specifics since I wouldn't have known as much about your fish background and experience.
And one can never tell whether what one says will actually help some readers because a different perspective gets introduced or if
some readers gain more from tight specific replies and others learn something new from a broader discussion.

It is just about fish and not the fate of the world.

M or Fm zebra?

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