MA Wheatley visit

[Richard B]

a brief visit yesterday (as it was down the road from where i was Christmas shopping )

There may have been a few things missed, or that i chose to ignore (like hybrid synos) but the list below is pretty comprehensive. In no particular order...with shop ID's although some are blatantly not right...

L48 £75
L114 £85
L190 £30 or 2/£55
L191 £35 or 2/£65
L106 £25 or 2/48
L. Morrowi £25 or 2/£45
S. Lima £30
L128 £55 or 2/£100
L066 £35 or 2/£65
Akysis Vespa £6.50 or 2/£11
L204a £30 or 2/£55
Zamora cats £12 or 2/£22
L017 £25 or 2/£48
L201 £35 or 2/£65
S. Pleurops (lg) £30
S. Planiceps - unpriced
C. Fowleri - (xl) - £150
L.Dorsalis - (lg) - £150
vundu - unpriced
Hypostomus sp - mixed with 'commons' - label says plecs £10
P. Costatus £12.50 or 2/£24
L270 (lg) £25 or 2/£45
L002 £25 or 2/£48
C Habrosus 2.50 or 5/£11
L47 £45 or 2/£88
A Pectinifrons £12.50 or 2/£24
L082 £28 or 2/£50
Borneo cat £10.50 or 2/£20 (labelled a pim sp but a bagrid)
H Littorale (labelled longibarbis) £9.50 or 2/£18
L Oncinus £65 or 2/£120
L90 £28 or 2/£55
B. Platynemum (8") unpriced
Microglanis £3.50 or 4/£12
C Panda £5.50 or 3/£15
Thoracata £7.50 or 3/£21
Pim Ornatus £55 or 2/£100
Triactus £55 or 2/£100
E. Benjamini £5.50 or 3/£15
H Zebra £175 or 2 /£325
P.Compta (L134) £55 or 2/£100
Medusa plec £25 or 2/£45
LDA033 £45 or 2/£80
Hemipimelodus jatius £15.50 or 2/30
Adonis £45 or 2/£85
L95 £25 or 2/£45
Paroto. Maculicauda £8.50 or 2/£16
Black Lancer £25 or 2/£45
suncats £6.50 or 3/£18
M. Tengara £6.50 or 2/£12
S Angelica £35
Fossilis £7.50 or 2/£14
asian USD cats £8.50 or 2/£10
electric cats £5.50 or 3/£15
s decorus £11.50 or 2/£20
s nigrita £3.50 or 3/£9
s brichardi £25 or 2/£48
s flavi £11.50 or 2/£20
s alberti £9.50 or 2/£18
S mulis (actually grandiops) large/genuine unpriced but small £17.50 although these were white polli.
pseudotropius brachypopterus £4.50 or 3/£12

[MatsP]

Did they have more than one of:
Black Lancer £25 or 2/£45

If so, any chance you noticed the sex?

--
Mats

[Richard B]

about 5, definately males in there but 3 were not showing off to the crowd

[Richard B]

presuming the hemipimelodus are actually Cephalocassis jatia it might be worth someone with a decent camera getting pics for cat-e-log - that said the ID could be suspect (?)

[kruseman]

Nice list. Do you happen to know what kind of catfish the Zamora cat actually is?

[MatsP]

Certainly looks like the genuine item:

Auchenipterichthys coracoideus

They've been there for a very long time. I may consider getting some next time I'm in.

--
Mats

[racoll]

Nice to see they are still getting interesting cats in.

What were the Entomocorus benjamini?

[Richard B]

@ mats - the zamora are only £5 each at MA stratford

@ Rupert - E.Radiosus (i think)- massive pectoral extensions

Best fish were IMHO the hypostomus for £10, the hemipimelodus or whatever ariid they were, the brachyplatystoma platynemum was nice but i imagine a pretty penny(?) & some of the non-cats were good too.

[MatsP]

Never been to MA Stratford. Might force myself to a visit sometime soon, it sounds like. After all, I've got two new tanks to overstock! ;)

--
Mats

[MatsP]

I went to Oxford/Wheatley today. Ended up with these:
Male:

Female:

(Excuse poor photos).
There is one pair of these left in the shop (buyer check sex before buying, but I'm pretty sure they were a pair).

And I took home 67% of the L106

Hemiancistrus guahiborum

stock:

There's 3 left...

And I got 6 more

Corydoras concolor

to go with the 3 I got from Aqualife.

--
Mats

[Birger]

The

Bagrichthys macracanthus

look in great shape...what size are they?

Birger

[MatsP]

The

Bagrichthys macracanthus

look in great shape...what size are they?

Birger

The photo tank is 6" long, so about 4-5". The female is quite fat!

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

IMO the Arius (or Ariidae for sure) are by far the most interesting and rare fish; apart from seemanni (they keep changing the name!) there haven't been any Ariidae in the trade for deaces, at least over here.

[Richard B]

IMO the Arius (or Ariidae for sure) are by far the most interesting and rare fish; apart from seemanni (they keep changing the name!) there haven't been any Ariidae in the trade for deaces, at least over here.

These definately caught my eye but i've no-where to house them.

Forgot to say they also have amblyceps (labelled Olyra) & a 12+ plus Wallago

[Viktor Jarikov]

Nice piece, Richard.

Congrats, Mats. Never seen one for sale yet. These are beautiful and desired, at least by L # banana (she seems bananas about this cat) and me. Keep us posted of their fate. Will you house them together? Are you looking to breed?

I wish UK was around the corner...

IMO the Arius (or Ariidae for sure) are by far the most interesting and rare fish

Really!? I will need to read on them to better consider your point, Alex.

[MatsP]

Will you house them together? Are you looking to breed?

Going in the same tank, yes. Looking to breed Black Lancer Bagrichthys macracanthus is probably a bit like saying "I put X on a lottery ticket today, I'm going to win" - sure, having a pair, in the same way as buying a ticket for the lottery, gives you a CHANCE of breeding. But as far as the joint knowledge on this site currently stand, they have never been breed by an aquarist. A starting point is to have a male and a female where the male isn't killing the female! ;)

--
Mats

[Richard B]

Will you house them together? Are you looking to breed?

Going in the same tank, yes. Looking to breed Black Lancer Bagrichthys macracanthus is probably a bit like saying "I put X on a lottery ticket today, I'm going to win" - sure, having a pair, in the same way as buying a ticket for the lottery, gives you a CHANCE of breeding. But as far as the joint knowledge on this site currently stand, they have never been breed by an aquarist. A starting point is to have a male and a female where the male isn't killing the female! ;)

--
Mats

IME with both black & marbled lancers, the vast majority of imports seem to be male - is this just the fish i've encountered or is there something else here? I'm thinking of the marbled at Pier as seen by Jools, Mats, Shane et el, Blacks at MA derby, odd ones at Rosedale (male), TWA (male), & various other LFS where male seem more evident - are they found in greater numbers? Are they easier to catch? is this just a random observation? Anyone...?

[MatsP]

I think to some extent, it's males that are more agressive, so if they are larger size, only the males "survive". But that is probably not the whole story. Males are over-represented in other groups as well, plecos for example.

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

I think it's much simpler and it's a human issue, not a fish issue

the local fishermen are paid to save the "weird black cats with the high fin".
and the others are likely eaten or thrown back.

that's also the reason that for a long time many Ancistrus species were all males; they were yold to catch the ones with the bushy noses for export......and so shipments were often 100% males

another possibility is that they view the sexes as different species and when they're told to catch species "fishyhighfinyadaya" they just catch males.....wouldn't be the first time that happened.

[MatsP]

And the truth is probably a combination of "all of the above".

--
Mats

[Richard B]

some good responses - thanks Mats & Sid this seems to ring true for the black lancer but perhaps not the harlequin/marbled lancer

Bagroides melapterus

- no identifying dorsal between the sexes - all at pier were male as were the 2 specimens i've kept from other sources.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Bagroides melapterus -

Striking fish, Richard. Highly desired by me, never seen. Tell us more about it, please, when/if you will.

[MatsP]

Bagroides melapterus -

Striking fish, Richard. Highly desired by me, never seen. Tell us more about it, please, when/if you will.

These are available (at £85 each) from Pier Aquatics. All males, at least three fish available.

It's a rare fish, and they are a bit sensitive to poor water conditions, so needs to be packed correctly when shipping. One sold at auction some time ago for, I think £35-40.

Stunning fish.

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

some good responses - thanks Mats & Sid this seems to ring true for the black lancer but perhaps not the harlequin/marbled lancer Bagroides melapterus - no identifying dorsal between the sexes - all at pier were male as were the 2 specimens i've kept from other sources.

unfortunately there's another scenario as well, and this is very likely.

I didn't post it, cause I wasn't in [Cynical Old Bastard Mode] when I made those replies, but here we go:

[COB mode on]
they export only males to keep hobbyists from breeding the fish!
this is a wellknown practice used by specifically South East Asian exporters.
this has happened in the past with many Rainbow fish species.

other -even worse- tricks are to treat the fish with X-rays or certain chemicals to make them sterile and thus unsuitable for breeding.
one species that is notorious for these stunts is Betta macrostoma.
but it has happened with other species and these practices are spreading.

this is happening on a larger scale than you'll think.

some of those persons in the trade over there are even bigger mofo's than the ones in Czechia polluting our hobby with all those hybrid Syno's
[/COB mode off]

when I was at Neil's place in Wigan I spoke to him about that
Itold him he'd better have a good thorough talk with his exporter.
too many fish in his store were exclusively 100% all males, and unfortunately he wasn't aware of this.
Neil certainly wasn't to blame; of that I'm very sure.

for example the Ageneiosus sp 3, the Hoplosternum littorale, some other Auchenipterids etc: only males!
even the ones of which there were at least 15-20 individuals were all males.

I do not believe in such a "coincidence" when there's money to be made and I've known these stunts before;
it's a proven method of some exporters to keep hobbyists from breeding the fish.

[Richard B]

Bagroides melapterus -

Striking fish, Richard. Highly desired by me, never seen. Tell us more about it, please, when/if you will.

this is indeed a stunning species

I've seen these in my time (30+ years)on 4 occasions - 3 times it was a lone individual (& i bought twice) & Pier got about 8 or 9 in last year & still have 3. All have been male that i've seen.

In terms of husbandry - easy (remember though that only single specimens were kept - i suspect they may be very aggressive towards each other).

Mine ate anything offered - flake, pellets, tablets etc as well as live/frozen bloodworm etc, didn't bother tankmates & actually wasn't over fussy as to water parameters. Colour pattern is striking & doesn't diminish with age.

The 2 problems, if you can call them that,are lack of availability & price.

I do regret selling mine on but with limited tanks/space/suitable conditions, i can't keep everything i'd like but then who can?

[Richard B]

@ Sid - this is the sort of stuff i was trying to find out (thanks as always) - in the case of the harlequin lancer it seemed too much of a random occurance - i've not considered other species as i've never paid accute attention to the sp i'm not really interested in.

If some of the things stated are indeed that prevalent it is extremely disapointing

[RickE]

On the other hand, you can't blame them for protecting their livelihood. If they have put time and money into developing a technique that allows them to breed species that are not commonly bred by hobbyists, why shouldn't they protect that investment for as long as possible?

[MatsP]

I do not believe in such a "coincidence" when there's money to be made and I've known these stunts before;
it's a proven method of some exporters to keep hobbyists from breeding the fish.

I have heard rumours about exporters doing all sorts of this stuff. I'm not convinced...

For easy to breed [and rear] species, then it would make sense. For species that sell for a fair bit of money and that range from "not bred very often" to "never been bred" (like the black or marbled lancer), then I don't see the benefit - it's just "loosing" a portion your catch.

When I asked Neil about buying 5 Leporacanthicus triactis, I asked "how many people buy groups of these", and he pretty much said he had one other customer that had bought multiples of this species, and further said that this applied to most of the plecos - people buy one, and then they buy another one that they like the looks of. Very few people are at all interested in breeding them. We are probably a bit "special" on this forum, and that skews the view a bit.

I could see how "priority buyers" may get to pick sexes, and the other buyers get what they get. So if someone of high rank (spending lots of $/£/€ with the exporter) gets to pick first, they may get more of the females, etc.

--
Mats

[MatsP]

On the other hand, you can't blame them for protecting their livelihood. If they have put time and money into developing a technique that allows them to breed species that are not commonly bred by hobbyists, why shouldn't they protect that investment for as long as possible?

Yes, if the fish are captive bred in the first place. However, most of the fish we're discussing here are not captive bred.

--
Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

Rick's point in the first sentence still stands strong. If one tries to think like an uneducated fisherman in an obscure poor country, they would think: if they cannot breed it over there (don't matter easy, hard, or whatever - they likely don't even know and don't care to know), then they will come to me to buy mine. No?