Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

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Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by panaque »

I thought I'd share some of my experiences with breeding .
I have 2 males and 1 female in a 120L tank which they share with some Panaqolus, Dianema, Corydoras, Centromochlus and a population of Endler's guppies. They always seem to get broody in November and switch off again at the end of February. Last year, after two years of waiting, they spawned for the first time. Over the period Nov-Feb the female produced 3 clutches, each time with 6 weeks in between. The first clutch she laid in the cave of the largest male but the response of the other male to this was to launch an all out attack which eventually resulted in the guarding male abandoning his cave after which the victor ejected the eggs. The losing male had lost most of his caudal fin and nearly all the skin on one side of his body. He really looked in an awful state but much to my amazement he healed very quickly without any problems or medication. Unfortunately I was away when all this happened and my then 9-year old son tried his best to save the eggs but they all developed fungus. The two subsequent spawns occurred in the same cave with the new occupant and were both successful, the male proving to be a very good dad. Here he is in his cave:
l134 male in cave.jpg
and here is one of his offspring at about 6 months of age:
235088.jpg
This year again the fish started showing signs of broodyness in November, with the clearly gravid female inspecting as yet unoccupied caves and the males starting to become hairy. Both males then took residence in the caves in the same places as where they ended up last year. All looked good and I was expecting the first spawn to arrive soon. However, we then looked on for two weeks as, every evening, the female visited the male that was evicted last year. She made repeated attempts to enter his cave but the male would always block her and enter the cave himself, refusing to let her past. In the mean time, the other male that had succesfully raised two broods last year was fanning away and trying to attract the female whenever she came near his cave but she always completely ignored him. This was very frustrating to watch. How could they be so useless now when they clearly had it sussed out last year?

I thought about it for a while and I realised that, although the two caves were in the same positions as last year, I had accidentally swapped them over when I had taken all the decor out last summer to catch the juveniles. So my theory now was that the female has a strong preference for one cave, regardless of its position or the occupant. I assumed that the male occupying the favorite cave was reluctant to spawn because he knew there was a dominant male about. This would also explain his regular attempts at dispersal, doing the rounds of the tank hanging off the glass. So, I decided to put my theory to the test by swapping over the two caves. Both males left their caves when I picked them up and within ten minutes had entered their new cave, so that was good. That evening I did a 15% water change with cool water (I do this every other day) and before I had even finished the female was in the cave with the male that she had ignored all this time. Naturally, I was very pleased with myself for having the fish repond to my intervention exacly as I had predicted... It seems therefore that females are very choosy about caves and not so much about males. I should add that there is not much difference between the caves, but the preferred one is slightly larger.

With the female in the cave with the male that she had spawned with twice last year I was optimistic we would find eggs the next day. However, it wasn't until 6 days later (today) that they finally spawned, and I was lucky to observe the moment. As I sat watching the tank (as you do) I noticed the male backing out of the cave, followed a minute later by the female (she had been in there all this time). She then turned around and backed, tail first, back into the cave, followed by the male who went in head first. After about five minutes the male backed out again and this time he too turned around and backed into the cave. Over the next hour the male would come out of the cave every ten minutes or so and alternatingly enter it head first or tail first, until finally the female emerged looking much thinner and with a clearly visible ovipositor. The male is now fanning a nice clutch of eggs. Fingers crossed it all goes smoothly now.

Whoever said breeding plecos is kinda boring?
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by Matt30 »

Hi Mate

Good breeding report,interesting what you said about females choosing different cave sizes over different males,how many eggs did you find in the first three clutches?,and what did you feed the fry?
Good luck with the latest clutch.
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by panaque »

Thanks. There were about 30 eggs per clutch last year. I feed the youngsters the same as the parents: a mixture of earthworm, spirulina, vegetable and brineshrimp sticks (from TA aquaculture).
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by Matt30 »

Wow your frogs have big clutches,did you have to crush the food into a paste for the fry or did you just give a normal.
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by panaque »

Matt30 wrote:Wow your frogs have big clutches,did you have to crush the food into a paste for the fry or did you just give a normal.
From what I have read these are quite normal clutch sizes for these fish.
No need to crush the food. It goes soft in water after a while. I do break it up into smaller bits so I can spread it out more to allow all fish to eat because they are territorial from quite an early age.
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by Matt30 »

Re clutches didn't know that,dads must have there work cut out.
Did you have a bare bottom or substrate,only asking because I have x7 sub adults and they make a right mess of there tank,hopefully they will breed one day :YMPRAY:
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by panaque »

Matt30 wrote:Re clutches didn't know that,dads must have there work cut out.
Did you have a bare bottom or substrate,only asking because I have x7 sub adults and they make a right mess of there tank,hopefully they will breed one day :YMPRAY:
I have a substrate of 4-5cm (1.5-2") play sand. I find that the female in particular likes to dig out her own hiding places under rocks.
I hope your fish will breed for you and if you keep conditions right for them they should do so sooner or later. You just have to be patient and, as my experience shows, watch them and change things around a bit if they seem stuck in a rut.
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by Matt30 »

Cheers for all the advice mate and good luck with yours.
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Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by panaque »

Quick update. The eggs hatched on 30 Dec, 8 days after they were laid. As it happened we had a lot of people visiting, including lots if noisy small ones, and the male freaked out leading to the fry starting to spill out of the cave. I decided to pull the fry and for the last 3 weeks I have kept them in a makeshift floating fry saver. Today I moved them to a small tank.
Here they are. I believe there are 31 of them and 3 died the first day after hatching so the total spawn was 34.
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by krazyGeoff »

Great informative thread.

Thanks
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by Matt30 »

Peckoltia compta are fast grower's !, there looking good mate
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by myjohnson »

Sorry, noob question....

These are the L134 right?
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by Matt30 »

Yes mate
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by bigbird »

very nice report. thanks cheers jk b-)
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by Andypex »

Nice informative thread, I have a group of 17 adults including some very gravid females but cant get them to spawn.

What are your water parameters??
Do you use RO for your water changes to trigger a spawn or just keep things stable??

Andy
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by apistomaster »

I raised around 1200 fry from a group of 2 trios of wild Peckoltia compta over a five year period. They were kept in a 20 long, 12 X 12 X 30 inches
Mine Almost always began to breed within +/- two weeks of March 1st and stop within +/- two weeks of Sept 1st with the exception of one spawn during the winter which resulted in only two or three fry. My fish produced between 25 and 25 fry per spawn although on one occasion, a second female spawn consecutively with a brooding male and that resulted in about 50 fry. The wild fish finally failed to spawn last year but my two to three year old F1 breeding groups spawned for their first times last year.
It is interested our breeding groups seem to have almost opposite breeding seasons.
I retired my old wild breeders to life in my with either my Nhamunda Blue Discus display tank and my 125 gal planted Tetra tank.
I have 12 to 15 in each of my two new breeding groups each in a 40 gallon breeder tank 36 X 18 X 16 high inches.
I have only saved one egg ball which got ejected and those were placed in a bare 4.5 gal tank with an air stone for artificial brood care.
Sometimes it would get pretty crowded in my 20 gal breeding set up. I leave my fry in my breeding tank until it is too crowded and the smallest fish are at least 1/2 inch long. I have some photos of how crowded it would get some times before I would get around to removing all the fry to make room for the next few batches.
Sorry, I can't resist kidding you a little. Get a little carried away with your color tweaking during photo processing>? A bit too bright yellow-orange to my eyes. /:)
Anyway, here are some photos of extended families of P. compta.
Image
Image
Image
Image
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by panaque »

Thanks for the nice responses.
Andypex wrote: What are your water parameters??
Do you use RO for your water changes to trigger a spawn or just keep things stable??
Andy
To be honest, I haven't measured my water in ages but I just use tap water, which is very soft here. The pH is between 6.0 and 6.5, the few times I have measured it. I perform a 15% water change every other day with cold tap water. I don't change anything to the maintenance regime to trigger a spawn but each water change is followed by a lot of activity in the breeding season.
apistomaster wrote:I raised around 1200 fry from a group of 2 trios of wild Peckoltia compta over a five year period. They were kept in a 20 long, 12 X 12 X 30 inches
Yes i have seen your posts on this over the years and they have been a great help. Thanks!
apistomaster wrote:Mine Almost always began to breed within +/- two weeks of March 1st and stop within +/- two weeks of Sept 1st [...] It is interested our breeding groups seem to have almost opposite breeding seasons.
Indeed. Do your F1 breeders follow the same breeding season as their wild parents?
apistomaster wrote: Sometimes it would get pretty crowded in my 20 gal breeding set up. I leave my fry in my breeding tank until it is too crowded and the smallest fish are at least 1/2 inch long. I have some photos of how crowded it would get some times before I would get around to removing all the fry to make room for the next few batches.
Very crowded indeed. Have you noticed any effect on growth rates when it gets crowded? I have noticed that some individuals pretty much stop growing when it gets too crowded. Interestingly, when I have relocated these small ones to other tanks they have nearly always caught up with their siblings again.
apistomaster wrote:Sorry, I can't resist kidding you a little. Get a little carried away with your color tweaking during photo processing>? A bit too bright yellow-orange to my eyes. /:)
Hmm, I can see why you would say that but I am not in the habit of tweeking with colour on my photos. Maybe a bit of autobalance. The photo of the male is a tad more orange than in life but the one of the juvenile is very true to life. Maybe something to do with carotenoids in the diet (brineshrimp sticks)?
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by apistomaster »

When my P. compta are in full swing as seen in the photos I posted I harvest the fry every 8 weeks. I normally do not sell my plecos until they are about one year old. By then they are all between 2-1/2 and 2-3/4 inches long. I consider this to be a very fast growing pleco species.
I'm sure i could grow my fish out faster but I am well known for being one of the laziest successful breeders among the membership.
Those I keep have bred in as little as 24 months although 36 months seems to be more typical for me.
Two year old females usually produce between 15 and 20 fry per brood but the numbers goes up as they get older.

The color.
I feed them mainly earth worm sticks and frozen blood worms. They also get fed Tetra color Granules a few times per week and they also get live black worms about five times per week. My fish are pretty yellow like these two fish which are about seven or eight months old. These are pale because I just caught them and dumped them in a small photo tank so they are frightened.
Image
Perhaps if I used foods richer in carotenoids they could be more colorful?
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Re: Some Peckoltia compta breeding observations

Post by powerfulpumpkins »

I found this a really informative thread so thanks for posting - got 4 L134 myself - no breeding though.
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