algae eaters that suck the glass sides of the tank ?

[DeckedOutLoft]

I just started a new tank (12 gallon Fluval Edge) & will not keep a heater (it will get high 60's in Winter & close to 80 in Summer).

I have cold water fish (2 shiners & will add 2 dace). I have a small earth-eater cichlid & will add a small sunfish.

Currently, there's no algae because it's a new tank. Because I have a moss ball & a Madagascar lace plant, I have the tank in light during the day. The Fluval Edge will be hard to clean manually because of the small opening at the top.

When it comes time for an algae eater, I'd like to get one that cleans the glass. I suspect that a Flag Fish won't do that because it doesn't have a sucker mouth. Do cory cats stick to the glass?? Do loaches suck onto the glass? Are plecos & snails the only tank residents that do that?

I've heard that the earth-eater will clean up debris at the bottom on the gravel, so I wanted something to stick to the glass:

Is a small pleco or snail my only option??

[wrasse]

How about the chinese hillstream loach? Sewellia Lineolata.

If you are keeping shiners happy and healthy, then these should be okay. Provide lots of oxygenation.

Eartheaters - geos and satanoperca - like it warm... around and above 80degF. So keep an eye on yours...

[MatsP]

Never mind that a 12gallon tank is FAR too small for eartheaters. Nearly all of them like to be in groups of 5-6 or more, and they grow quite large.

--
Mats

[racoll]

My impression is that this tank is too small to hold this selection of fishes.

Therefore I would replace with more suitable species, rather than adding more at this stage.

[DeckedOutLoft]

Never mind that a 12gallon tank is FAR too small for eartheaters. Nearly all of them like to be in groups of 5-6 or more, and they grow quite large.

--
Mats

I selected the cold hardy geo that likes temps down to mid sixties (Geo. brasiliensis). I plan on giving him away to my boyfriend when it gets big (right now, the geo is only 1 inch long & I keep my tank at room temp, so I'm not growing him at a faster rate as a heated tank would).

So, yes, eventually I'll rehome him, but not for a while.

The two rainbow shiners I have are a half an inch long & the dace will be that small as well. They only get a few inches long.

[DeckedOutLoft]

How about the chinese hillstream loach? Sewellia Lineolata.

If you are keeping shiners happy and healthy, then these should be okay. Provide lots of oxygenation.

Eartheaters - geos and satanoperca - like it warm... around and above 80degF. So keep an eye on yours...

Hi Wrasse - the Pearl Eartheater is more cold hardy than the others. The one I have is young (an inch long) & I'll re-home him when he gets too big.

The Fluval Edge has a small opening at the top (my boyfriend couldn't fit his hand/arm down in there to set up the tank, so I had to do all of it). Because of the cumbersome small opening, I wanted to get something that sucks algae on the glass sides --- will the Hillstream Loach do that?

Thanks.

[MatsP]

The eartheater will grow to about 10". Whilst temperature may well be quite wide range, they are certainly NOT suitable for a small tank - the recommended base area for this sort of fish is around 5ft x 18".

--
Mats

[DeckedOutLoft]

The eartheater will grow to about 10". Whilst temperature may well be quite wide range, they are certainly NOT suitable for a small tank - the recommended base area for this sort of fish is around 5ft x 18".

--
Mats

Hi - yes, I will definitely re-home the geo. He's young (only an inch long) and will be placed into another tank when he gets bigger (as I posted previously).

[racoll]

I'm not convinced that shiners (Notropis) are suitable for such as small tank either. It's too cramped in my opinion, for an active cyprinid reaching 8cm.

Sunfish (Lepomis) are also a bad idea, as they are not small either.

I'm not sure what species "dace" are, but these are likely to also be very active cyprinids, and again, a bad choice for a tiny tank.

[DeckedOutLoft]

I'm not convinced that shiners (Notropis) are suitable for such as small tank either. It's too cramped in my opinion, for an active cyprinid reaching 8cm.

Sunfish (Lepomis) are also a bad idea, as they are not small either.

I'm not sure what species "dace" are, but these are likely to also be very active cyprinids, and again, a bad choice for a tiny tank.

I haven't gotten the dace yet, so perhaps I'll get only one instead of two.

Both species of shiner (of which I have 2) and dace get around 2.5 inches as adults (currently the shiners are 1/2 an inch long). I was told by my LFS that they like to "school", so that's why I thought two shiners weren't enough to make a school. Perhaps I'll get only 1 dace to round out the school to three.

Yes, I'm not getting a large sunfish species - and I would rehome him (along with the geo) into a larger tank if it gets too crowded.

[racoll]

I was told by my LFS that they like to "school", so that's why I thought two shiners weren't enough to make a school.

Yes, they do, but fish generally like to shoal with their own species, and they will have a much better quality of life if they are allowed to form large shoals, as they do in the wild.

Sadly, three fish is not a shoal. Some folks say 6 is the minimum for a shoaling species, but I wouldn't consider less than 12. I think your LFS gave you bad advice as to what you can stock in your Fluval Edge aquarium.

Regarding the algae, unfortunately this is almost an inevitability in a tiny tank with such a large bioload. The best option is to restrict the number of hours the tank lights are on (< 6), change the water very regularly (every few days), and maybe consider adding some nerite snails. Adding more fish will make the water quality deteriorate further, I'm afraid.

Sorry if this sounds negative. Just trying to help out :)

[DeckedOutLoft]

I was told by my LFS that they like to "school", so that's why I thought two shiners weren't enough to make a school.

Yes, they do, but fish generally like to shoal with their own species, and they will have a much better quality of life if they are allowed to form large shoals, as they do in the wild.

Sadly, three fish is not a shoal. Some folks say 6 is the minimum for a shoaling species, but I wouldn't consider less than 12. I think your LFS gave you bad advice as to what you can stock in your Fluval Edge aquarium.

Regarding the algae, unfortunately this is almost an inevitability in a tiny tank with such a large bioload. The best option is to restrict the number of hours the tank lights are on (< 6), change the water very regularly (every few days), and maybe consider adding some nerite snails. Adding more fish will make the water quality deteriorate further, I'm afraid.

Sorry if this sounds negative. Just trying to help out

Thanks - Yes, after reading more about nerites today (how they won't breed in fresh water), I was actually thinking the same thing before I read your post. I'll select 2 zebra nerites when the time comes for algae control (along with manual cleaning).

Since I'll be transplanting the geo & sunfish before they get too big, I'm not sure if it will be an issue of adding 2 dace to my 2 shiners....

I always thought that shoaling & schooling were interchangeable terms. I just looked it up & it appears that "shoaling" is more of a general term of like species grouping together (not necessarily swimming w/ coordinated movements as they do when "schooling"). Also, it appears that shoaling doesn't require as many fish as does schooling, so perhaps 2 shiners + 2 dace are enough (both species are a type of minnow).

Again, with the inevitable growth of the cichlid & small sunfish, I'll be transplanting those 2 to another tank when they get bigger --- but the 4 minnows (only getting 2.5 inches) could remain behind with the 2 zebra nerites...

[racoll]

I always thought that shoaling & schooling were interchangeable terms. I just looked it up & it appears that "shoaling" is more of a general term of like species grouping together (not necessarily swimming w/ coordinated movements as they do when "schooling").

Yes, interesting fact. Not a lot of people know that!

Also, it appears that shoaling doesn't require as many fish as does schooling, so perhaps 2 shiners + 2 dace are enough (both species are a type of minnow).

No, regardless of how we apply our language, these fishes still need to be kept in groups of at least 6 minimum, and 12 being much better.

[Suckermouth]

As far as glass cleaning goes, I never rely on fish for that. One of those magnetic algae scrapers may be the ticket, as you don't have to reach into the tank and try to maneuver a normal algae scraper in that tank. Your tank is quite small so it shouldn't be a problem to clean with just a few minutes added onto a regular water change schedule. Furthermore, while churning the substrate is a great benefit that Geophagus and some other fish may have, I have never had a fish that I thought effectively churned the substrate; plus, the water has to flow well enough that the detritus doesn't just sink back to the bottom after being churned up. Even in my fast-water pleco tanks there are spots where detritus fall and aren't picked up by the filters.

racoll is right about his insistence on keeping high numbers for social fish (whether or not they school or shoal!). There may be some truth to the idea that shoaling species can be kept in smaller numbers than schooling species (I have never heard of anyone actually testing this), I'd wager that 2 (and 6 and 12) isn't anywhere near the number where it makes a difference; all three numbers are far less than the natural numbers that these fish are comfortable in. I have kept a few North American minnows (Cyprinella, Notropis) and larger numbers than two per species are certainly necessary. Plus, the fish are healthier for it.

I am curious what "dace" you are getting. The term "dace", like "shiner", includes several groups of unrelated fish that differ in their adult body size and necessary care requirements, making it difficult for us to give accurate advice.

[wrasse]

I agree with all the advice given.
And Geo Brasiliensis is a big bruiser.
Looking at the smart 12g Fluval Edge, its quite a tall tank. Most schooling/shoaling fish need space to roam... its not an ideal shaped tank for that.
I don't know what the filtration/aeration is like, I guess its all built in.
If the aeration/ filtration is strong or if you could add an internal power filter, you could get away with a shoal of white cloud mountain minnows and the hillstream loach.
If I had that tank I'd go for a large mixed group of quality male guppies. Ideally when you first add the fish the water would be mid-70s.

[sidguppy]

if you need a fish for a small tank that cleans the sand and can be kept in an unheated tank and stay small, i suggest a fish that's

available everywhere
dead easy to keep
small
docile
and fun to watch
can best be kept in a small group of 4-5

Corydoras paleatus

here it is
;)

[Mike_Noren]

The only effective way to keep the glass clean is by with an alga scraper. Personally I prefer the kind with a razorblade, but many prefer the magnetic ones, and either will do a much better job at keeping the glass clean than any alga-eating fish.

[nvcichlids]

if you are dead set on keeping some "native" fish to the tank and want sunfish, you could keep a nice group of elassoma sunfish in there. They max out at 1.5" and do not need a heater. There aren't any native fish that do the algae control that many South American/Asian Fish can do. You MIGHT be able to keep A common bristlenose in there, but if you keep elassomas, they will not succeed in breeding.

Thanks of this size really aren't ment for any fish that gets too much bigger than 1". I had one of these tanks when they first came out to test and kept it as a brackish water with bumblebee gobies. That was it, just 6 little bee gobies. I heated mine, and tried to acclimate oto's to the brackish conditions, but the pair did not transition.