BNP Calico or Chocolate LF

[vinman]

It was posted up as a calico LF but I think it is a Chocolate LF. See if any of you pleco experts can identifiy it.

Please if anybody got some pic's of LF Chocolate BNP please post them up on this thread

[Richard B]

Well whatever common name we give it, isn't it just a man made variety of a common?

[vinman]

I know, but I still like to identify what morph it is. I like the whole group of color morphs of this ssp

[sidguppy]

this poor thing makes me very sad....

it can't swim properly because of the misshaped fins, it's a hybrid and it has pop eyes......

[vinman]

this poor thing makes me very sad....

it can't swim properly because of the misshaped fins, it's a hybrid and it has pop eyes......

#1 the eyes are fine and they are not enlarged.
#2 it is a long fin BNP and they swim very well
#3 if you can't con't contrubute to the thread take you nasty coments else where. I'm trying to find out what morph this is. if it is a Chocolate or a Calico morph of BNP.

[vinman]

Please if anyone can help me with telling the 2 morph apart. I know this guy was labled a Calico LF but it dont look like any of the ones I'm breeding or any of the calico I seen.

[pleco_breeder]

This is a calico/red marble depending on who you talk to. Chocolates still have the same pattern, but lack the red/orange color.

Larry

[sidguppy]

#3 if you can't con't contrubute to the thread take you nasty coments else where.

people are entitled opinions here

if you can't handle freedom of speech, then what are you doing on the internet?

I'm not exactly fond of breeding animals in a way that they end up misshapen
'long fin', parrot fish, short legged cats, dogs that can only give birth by cesarian cuts, fish with such created weird shaped bodies.....I think it should not be done.

there's plenty of choice without going in this direction.

just my 200 bucks (I'm far too expensive for 2 cents).

[vinman]

Thanx Larry so A chocolet would lack the orangish trim on the finsbecause I don't see a orange pattren on this fish.

[vinman]

#3 if you can't con't contrubute to the thread take you nasty coments else where.

people are entitled opinions here

if you can't handle freedom of speech, then what are you doing on the internet?

I'm not exactly fond of breeding animals in a way that they end up misshapen
'long fin', parrot fish, short legged cats, dogs that can only give birth by cesarian cuts, fish with such created weird shaped bodies.....I think it should not be done.

there's plenty of choice without going in this direction.

just my 200 bucks (I'm far too expensive for 2 cents).

Dude I live i the country that made free speach possibile to the world and to boot a native New Yorker. Thats right fredom to like what what ever you want to like.If any one here on this forum is imposing on freedom it is you and your oppion.Stop telling people what they can't and can keep or breed. So with fredom in mind if you don't like it then tuff cookies. Don't post on my thread if you have not the knowledge to answer the question. Don't make it so others don't want to post here. You are only hurting the forum and the hobby. Shame on you !!!!!!

[pleco_breeder]

Chocolates don't have the genes to produce the orange/red. They're also highly variable in the pattern on their body. Some will show the pattern only at times while others maintain almost ghostly white patches.

Larry

[vinman]

I been looking for some pictures on the net and I cant find any. I breed the red to the super red ,calico Lf & SF. I also crosec my Red male to normale LF females carring the Calico gene. I never worked with the chocolates before. I looking for some nice Green Dragons. Here are some of my LF calico BNP. and a pic of a male I sold last year

[Bijn]

Dude I live i the country that made free speach possibile to the world

Stop telling people what they can't and can keep or breed.

[Barbie]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this board is neither free, nor public domain. All of you need to take a deep breath and behave. Man made morphs are something that many hobbyists are going to strongly object to. I have always greatly respected the group at PC for being able to have and state their preferences, without making it an attack. Please, keep that in mind.

And in answer to the question, most commonly referred to "chocolate" plecos are not ancistrus, so the question is going to be rather difficult to answer. These fish are not described species and common names can be both locationally and personally based and biased. If you're going to mix color morphs together, you're going to be creating a bristlenose muttfish and may call it anything you'd like, no? Then again, I have the same outlook for dogs. I do not think labradoodles are a breed, they are just a mutt specifically bred to shed less and be hypoallergenic. It doesn't mean they don't have a good purpose or even a specific genetic "look".

Barbie

[Marc van Arc]

Sid, I'm sure you have much more important things to do then to reply to this thread.

[vinman]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this board is neither free, nor public domain. All of you need to take a deep breath and behave. Man made morphs are something that many hobbyists are going to strongly object to. I have always greatly respected the group at PC for being able to have and state their preferences, without making it an attack. Please, keep that in mind.

And in answer to the question, most commonly referred to "chocolate" plecos are not ancistrus, so the question is going to be rather difficult to answer. These fish are not described species and common names can be both locationally and personally based and biased. If you're going to mix color morphs together, you're going to be creating a bristlenose muttfish and may call it anything you'd like, no? Then again, I have the same outlook for dogs. I do not think labradoodles are a breed, they are just a mutt specifically bred to shed less and be hypoallergenic. It doesn't mean they don't have a good purpose or even a specific genetic "look".

Barbie

there is a morph of BNP called "chocolate" . I know the other "chocolate" but that is a "chocolate albino" and is not a BNP. According to what I read all the color morphs of ABN are all the same ssp. the color morphs are gene mutations not different ssp

[Barbie]

There is quite a bit of discussion about the genetic makeup of common "bristlenose" and whether they are hybrids of a few species. I order from a good number of fish lists every week and I haven't seen a chocolate bristlenose. Maybe it's a name more common in the east? I couldn't say. My point was only that color descriptive common names are going to mean different things to different people and there doesn't really seem to be a definitive answer to your question.

Barbie

[vinman]

Chocolates don't have the genes to produce the orange/red. They're also highly variable in the pattern on their body. Some will show the pattern only at times while others maintain almost ghostly white patches.

Larry

Barbie, Larry knows what I'm talkibg about. I just hoping someone would post some pic's Of some Long Fin Chocolates. I found some on the net Here is a few of the links i found


http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn20 ... G_2984.jpg

http://mtfb.com/gunpowder/images/plecos ... ris_50.jpg

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... 1295755203

My personal feelings is the normals, color morphs weather LF or SF I belive they are all hybrids. I remember as a kid Bristle nose plecos were just that. There was not all these different SSp of BNP around. You just bred any 2 bristel nose plecos together.

[Shane]

My personal feelings is the normals, color morphs weather LF or SF I belive they are all hybrids.

They are all man-made forms of a single species. Genetic testing (DNA) has shown they are not hybrids. In fact hybridization among Ancistrus appears to be extremely rare. I am only aware of a single strongly documented case of hybridization between two Ancistrus spp.
-Shane

[vinman]

Wow I read that they were all Ancistrus temminckii. I thought the article was wrong. There is a lot of misinformation on the net. Thank you Shane !!!!!!!!



Shane, this even pisses me off even more how some members on this forum go on to harass people about hybrids and gene mutations and don't even know what they are talking about. I feel that this deters people like myself that would post here more often if it was not for some member forcing their oppions on other people. This has got to stop !!!!

I posted up a BN pleco to identify it. Only to have a member come on the thread to lie and say it was a hybrid and the eyes were enlarged and that it can't swim well. All lies I keep LF BNP and let me tell you they are not easy to catch with a net. That fish I posted does not have enlarged eyes and now I find out that they whole group of color morphs are pure Ancistrus temminckii.

I feel I'm owed a apology by sidguppy for his false accusation's.

I never judge a person on how they conduct themselves when all is good. I judge a person on how they conduct themselves then thing go sour. That where a person true colors come out.

[Bijn]

Shane, this even pisses me off even more how some members on this forum go on to harass people about hybrids and gene mutations and don't even know what they are talking about.

That fish I posted does not have enlarged eyes and now I find out that they whole group of color morphs are pure Ancistrus temminckii.

Maybe you shouldn't accuse people of things you do yourself.

[Marc van Arc]

I feel that this deters people like myself that would post here more often if it was not for some member forcing their oppions on other people. This has got to stop !!!!

And so it will. I'm closing this thread because I think that Vinman is out of line with his accusations. Things were quiet again, yet you have to stir things up one more time. Too bad you didn't read Barbie's advice.