Tips for breeding Synodontis petricola

[redtigrinus]

I just picked up a group of Synodontis petricola and I want to try breeding them. But I'm not sure about how to deal with the eggs. I have heard of people yielding small spawns because of fungus and things of that nature. Should the eggs be pulled, should they stay in the tank? I plan on using the marbles in the bowl technique. Any tips? Oh these are in fact true petricola. They are to big to be lucipinnis.

[pleco_breeder]

I don't know about true petricola because I've only spawned lucipinnis. However, my best hatches came after I started using a fungus inhibitor. Initially, hatches were very small with only a couple dozen surviving. Once I started pulling the eggs, bowl, rocks etc. to a separate tank dosed with Methylene blue it improved quite a bit. Another thing that helped was aiming the filter return at the dish.

My tanks are slightly different than the standard hobbyist because they are all drilled, and most of them are connected to a central system. However, a bit of improvisation should be possible. When I placed them in a stand alone drilled tank, I simply put a small water pump in the sump of that tank. By using airline tubing on the return to direct flow, I was able to keep the water moving around the eggs and keep sediment out of the bowl till they hatched. The eggs are slightly adhesive, so most of them stayed in the bowl and clear of sediment.

The really tricky time is the first feeding. They look like they are relatively plump for a couple days after hatching. However, they will start dropping like flies if they don't get their first feeding shortly after hatching. Anything past 24 hours will likely result in very heavy losses. I found it to be a reasonable median, between tank maintenance and survival, to start feeding at 12-18 hours. From that point on, they were fed with golden pearls, decap brine, or frozen rotifers 3-4 times a day.

As mentioned above, this info applies to lucipinnis, but hopefully you can get something useful from it.

You should also consider posting pics of your adults as well. Initially, I thought I may have petricola because of the size of my male. He was over the four inch size stated on the site, but didn't really match the other factors for petricola.

Larry

[Scleropages]

As Larry states, size is not the best way to determine petricola vs. lucipinnis. I have not yet bred my group of S. lucipinnis. However, FWIW, I have found that methylene blue has no effect on fungus/mold growing on eggs of Uaru amphiacanthoides. I have found the best forms of fungus/mold prevention are doing daily 50%-or-more water changes on the hatchery/nursery tank, keeping an airstone or powerhead near the eggs to keep water moving over them (Uaru eggs are laid on a rock, usually, and can't really be put into an egg tumbler like you can with Syno eggs), and keeping the tank dark.

[redtigrinus]

Thanks. I'm almost positive they are petricola but I'll take some pics of them. I have heard of people using egg tumblers to keep the eggs from getting fungus. Anyone else have experience using this method?

[Scleropages]

I do not have firsthand experience using egg tumblers, but I'm pretty sure there are some forum members who have. A couple of my friends have built their own for hatching mbuna eggs and they work great. Hardly any fungus on their eggs as long as they keep the water clean. You can even build your own with an air pump and a visit to Home Depot with an Andrew Jackson.

[tomr]

I dont know about petricolas, but the luccipinnis eggs hatch very fast and shouldnt need fungus prevention. tumblers should not be necessary either.In my experience the eggs all hatch or none of them hatch.

[pleco_breeder]

I have to disagree. Several spawns with over 300 eggs and less than 30 fry says otherwise. They do hatch quickly, but can be difficult to get to a reasonable hatch. I lost thousands of eggs before changing things to their liking enough to get 90% hatches.

I never tried the tumblers, but it may be a viable option.

Larry

[redtigrinus]

All you guys have been really helpful. Thanks. I think I may try the egg tumbler method. I would hate to get hundreds of eggs just to end up with a couple dozen fry and perhaps even less juveniles. I do have a group of Lucipinnis too so I'll try some of these methods with them as well.

Anyone have any experience using host?

[Birger]

Anyone have any experience using host?

Hosts (as in mouthbrooding Cichlids) will only work with

Synodontis multipunctata

and

Synodontis grandiops

.

Birger

[redtigrinus]

Yes. I meant mouth brooders. Ok thanks. Anyone have a tank size suggestion for a group of 7 fish?

[Scleropages]

Anyone have a tank size suggestion for a group of 7 fish?

At least 75gal (48" x 18" x 21"). If you are keeping cichlids with them, at least a 90gal (48" x 18" x 24").

[Richard B]

If they are petricola not lucipinnis, & you want the best chances of breeding success you really need 3 tanks. Tank 1 with your males in. Tank 2 with your females in. Condition them all up & select your best pair for a breeding attempt in the third tank. That's a 'simplistic' version of how the Pro's do it at Neil Hardy Aquatica

[Scleropages]

you really need 3 tanks

This is the recommendation for many syno species. No co-ed syno tanks until it's time for the big dance.

[redtigrinus]

you really need 3 tanks

This is the recommendation for many syno species. No co-ed syno tanks until it's time for the big dance.

Why do you think that is? Why wouldn't a group of fish be more productive than a pair?

[tomr]

Again, i dont know about the real petricolas, but in the lucipinnis all that seems unnecessary. In groups when they are ready, you couldnt stop them from breeding.

[Scleropages]

Why do you think that is? Why wouldn't a group of fish be more productive than a pair?

Hormonal and pheromonal interactions. You probably could try to breed a group using the three tank method. All males in one tank, all females in another. Get them good and fat. In a third tank, get some other type of fish to breed (produces more pheromones) in similar water to what you're keeping the synos in... guppies, mollies, mbuna, etc. Do a big water change on that tank right before a big storm front (check for a big change in atmospheric barometric pressure) and then throw all the synos in. I know someone who was breeding

Synodontis schoutedeni

this way quite regularly. I realize that species is from the Congo basin and requires different water conditions from S. petricola, but some of those methods may help.

I wonder if there are any forum members checking in who have bred S. petricola. I can't imagine it would be much different from S. lucipinnis and it probably doesn't need to get as complicated as what I described above--lake Tanganyika's water is much more stable than that in the Congo River and simulating "rain" probably doesn't matter as much in rift lake fish as it does for river fish.

[Richard B]

you really need 3 tanks

This is the recommendation for many syno species. No co-ed syno tanks until it's time for the big dance.

Why do you think that is? Why wouldn't a group of fish be more productive than a pair?

This is certainly not neccessary for lucipinnis. This is how NHA breed Petricola and Granulosa. It seems a logical way forward for riverine species as well. In addition to the above posts about hormonal and pheromonal interactions i believe it prevents aggression between individuals of the same sex in a mixed sex group when there is competition to be the alpha male and to spawn.

[redtigrinus]

Here is a pic of my biggest male. He is a bit over 5 inches. Pic isnt the greatest but you get the idea.

[Birger]

This is one of the very few times where I am thinking a posted picture has attributes of petricola...

Is that 5 " TL (total length)or SL (to the base of the caudal fin)??

Big males are tough....For interest sake I would like to see a female...possible??

Also...I am not saying this to be mean...you have homework(good luck )......this is why these are so tough...to be entirely sure you need to know if it has an axillary pore, next to impossible to see by eye on a moving fish,if it was me I would be clicking pictures. Here are what I think are examples, excuse the bad pictures but they are all I have:
first picture is a Synodontis grandiops notice the pore above the pectoral, you are looking for this opening in petricola.
In the second this opening is missing, there is the hollow similar to your own arm pit(hence the latin axilla) but it is not open, which signifies a lucipinnis.

[Richard B]

The pic looks like Petricola to me.

[Scleropages]

I don't see the "window" in the anal fin. Between that and the uniform spotting pattern, I'm going to have to say it looks like S. petricola.

[redtigrinus]

Is that 5 " TL (total length)or SL (to the base of the caudal fin)??

5 inches would be SL he's is a little over 5.5" total length. I'll see if I can get a pic of the female.

[redtigrinus]

I took a look at one of my females and after fighting with her for an a few minutes I feel safe saying she has the pore. Im not sure about the others I didnt check them yet. Luckily I have some lucipinnis to be able to compare them to and it was definitely different. I used a little flash list to see if there was a hole or just a hollow and I'm pretty sure it was a hole as it seem to go fairly deep. No way I can get a pic of it though.

[Birger]

Thanks for checking...that is positive proof and a bit of reassurance that the information we give out is correct...it is a tough spot to inspect as you found out and hats off to you for winning the wrestling match and bonus for having luci's to compare with.

If I remember correctly the spawnings of true petricola that Richard B mentions is the only "for sure" spawning of petricola that we know of, at least no one has stepped up with positively ID'd fish that have been spawned.

So I hope that it also will work out for yourself.
Make sure you keep us posted.

Birger

[redtigrinus]

Its was certainly a fight. But I'm happy to know she is a true petricola. I check my second female last night and she was much more willing than the first. She too has the pore. I have one more to check. I'll let you know how that goes.

[Oliver D.]

Hi,

I have bred S. petricola and S. lucipinnis. At the moment I have youngsters from both species. They spawn very similar. Thats my way in the community tank:


It works fine with both species, but my S. lucipinnis also use the plants and the corners of the tank.

If a lot of the eggs are unfertilised, you get problems with fungus. Unfertilised eggs are mostly a problem of wrong food for the parents. Feed them with mosquito larvae only and you will have no problems with unfertilised eggs. Then the eggs will hatch faster as the fungus grow up.

[redtigrinus]

Thanks Oliver. I have actually been feeding nothing but mosquito larvae to all my synodontis.

[Birger]

I have bred S. petricola and S. lucipinnis

Oliver would know if he has genuine petricola...that makes for another confirmed spawning of the species.

Birger

[redtigrinus]

Thanks for all the tips.