Large Cat showing signs of Bloat

[Redtailrob]

My 28" TSNxRTC cross is showing some signs of bloating.
Its a little lethargic compaired to normal & appears to have a slighty swollen abdomen.
This fish was fed some whole squid & some white fish fillets @ the weekend but usually within a 48hrs the belly will return to normal & show no signs of being feed.
I'm going to perform a 30% water change & add some Anti - Bacterial remedy
Any further suggestions on here??

[saor alba]

Hi Rob what about a dose of kusuri that usually get mine going good without using other methods if they look swollen up and plenty clean water after dose period
a touch

An old school method of treating bloat is with the use of epsom salt at the rate of 2 tablespoons per 10 gallons of tank volume. This method has been successful but, takes longer to treat than by using Metronidazole.
To treat Bloat, the plan of attack is:
Metronidazole and water changes, water changes, water changes!!

1. Remove carbon/resins from filter.
2. Perform a 30-50% water change (reduces free-floating bacteria population)
3. Add salt (teaspoon to a tablespoon per gallon) to aid the fish's osmotic regulation processes.
4. Treat with 250mg/20gallons of Metronidazole (Flagyl)
5. Leave for 3 days and do not feed.
6. After 3 days, perform another large water change.
7. Replace the salt.
8. Add full dosage of Metronidazole.
9. Wait another 3 days. During this phase, the bloat should be decreasing in appearance. In large fish, the water may take on an ammonia odor from the high volume of urea the fish should now be producing due to reducing the bloat and recovering renal activity.
10. 3rd day, another water change. Also, replace the salt and redose the metronidazole (full dose). If the fish looks to be well on the road to recovery you can offer a small feeding each day.
11. Another water change on the 3rd day. No meds but,. You should be clear now

[Viktor Jarikov]

An exceptionally nice reply above.

I'd not dare to diagnose a bloat but can offer just my thoughts. My gut feeling is that, if there were no changes in the diet, tank, water, tank mates, etc., intestinal issues perhaps usually involve intestinal parasites. I'd try to add a little anti-parasitic med, metronidazole, as mentioned, and/or praziquantel... much preferably to the fish's food but the tank water can be tried too.

You yourself reported several times that bloat comes and goes by itself, even a strong one, so if this case is still very mild, I'd use a prophylactic doze of an anti-parasitic med just a precaution and observe.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Forgot to mention that the fish could have swallowed an inedible (or edible) object, if such are available.

Think hard.

For instance, thinking backwards I once realized that my sub-adult RTCs managed to pull out some plastic sacks I used to tuck in the voids in my pond divider, tore them to pieces and ate them and then took a couple of months to pass them... refusing to eat all this time! Since I never had a viewing window in that pond (that was in Rochester NY), I don't know if they looked bloated or not. I only could observe them from above.

It happened with other inedible objects but it was not because they were underfed at all. None other of the 100 fish in that pond has been doing anything that stupid. It's only the RTCs. That's why my personal advice is invariably DO NOT have anything that can be swallowed in with any RTC at any age. There were three TSNxRTC hybrids in that pond. They never have done it.

[Richard B]

Rob

How's the fish now?

Was the squid & white fish fresh, frozen (& defrosted), previously frozen etc

I've occasionally seen big pim reactions to being fed what can crudely be described as 'poor quality food' which has included unusual bloats.

This has included stuff not fully defrosted & stuff previously frozen which when defrosted & not fed promptly has started to degrade - stuff you wouldn't eat yourself that some fishkeepers seem to think is still suitable for eating

Just a thought, certainly not meaning that you would knowingly feed anything like that but i've been told of fishmongers who sell previously frozen stuff as fresh & it doesn't last long at all.

[Redtailrob]

Thanks all for your responses
Update on this fish.
I carried out x 2 30% water changes over the space of 5 days & raised the temperature of the water a few degrees.
This seems to have done the trick.
All signs of bloating have vanished & the fish became very active again.
It had been Hovering at the surface waiting to be fed for several days so was feed yesterday...nearly took my hand off!
Now these white fish fillets concern me.
I buy them from the supermarket & they are for human consumption.
I fed a small piece to a beautiful 4 " Jau (zungaro zungaro)that I'd had a few months several months ago and after a few days the poor fish swelled up like a golf ball & then perished. Not sure if this was as a result of the white fish or an internal bacterial infection

[Viktor Jarikov]

Good news on the big cat.

Yeah, I remember the Jau incident. I cannot offer much food for thought. I'm sure you defrost well before feeding, as Richard B pointed out. We used to buy frozen whiting fillets at Aldi. Sometimes or more often that we'd like, the fillets would have slightly yellower and drier edge parts that were stinky too. Of course, the reason we know it is because we ate them. We had to cut out those stinky parts.

Still, I struggle to imagine that big predators/scavengers that feed on healthy fish but too often on all kinds of disease-ridden, parasite-ridden, weak(ened), or dead fish can be so touchy to the quality of food.

[Richard B]

So, good news!

Worth trying different foodstuffs from different sources & monitoring results maybe

On a different note, when I went down to Dorset a few weekends ago I bought back a load of live shrimp, prawn & a few soft shell shorecrabs as well as some seaweed referred to as sea lettuce. Needless to say my tang synos are looking rather fat...

Would it be possible to get any small self-caught pollack type fish or maybe even large earthworms? I got a load of earthworms from a 10k race I did as all the vibrations of the finishers brought the worms to the surface (although I musta looked a bit crazy to some onlookers)

[Viktor Jarikov]

... I got a load of earthworms from a 10k race I did as all the vibrations of the finishers brought the worms to the surface (although I musta looked a bit crazy to some onlookers)

Huh?? Can you please elaborate, please? People running cause the worms to come out??

[Bas Pels]

I think there was a running race, and this made the worms come out of the ground.

Rain makes vibrations in the ground, and wormd don't like to drown, so these vibrations make worms go up. Some birds use this to vibrate the worms out of the ground - and there is no reason not to use the same idea to get worms for other purposes

[Richard B]

Yes indeed. The vibrations simulate rain which brings worms to the surface - sometimes in good numbers. I've seen this at soccer matches where I've been linesman, at running races in a park, at festivals- all on grass. It can be also achieved by hammering a long metal bar or wooden pole into the ground at an angle & then randomly frequently tapping it but this is less effective IME

[Redtailrob]

Richard B.....wish Id seen that!!
Everyone must've been going...what is that lunatic doing??
I've laboured for gardening contractor friends in the past for extra cash & I always used to take a container with me for worm collection!
Also been known to creep around the park with a torch on a dark night when its raining......surpised I dont get arrested!
Think I'd need allot of Earthworms though to feed a 28" TSN x RTC Hybrid no??!!

[Viktor Jarikov]

I hear they reach 1 meter in Brazil, so not a lot of those

[Richard B]

I do get looked upon as a bit of a weirdo!

[Redtailrob]

DITTO Richard!!
Better to be different I say.
Thanks again all

[wrasse]

Also been known to creep around the park with a torch on a dark night when its raining......surpised I dont get arrested!

Hmmmmm, I'm lost for words...