What Disease(s) Is/Are Causing This Death?

[FerocactusLatispinus]

About a week ago, I noticed a spot of ich on one of the maxillary barbels on my Platydoras armatulus and saw that some of the corys were scraping themselves. I picked up some Rid-Ich+ and provided the specified treatment once every 24 hours for 48 hours. At this point I noticed that the Striped Raphael Catfish was looking very clamped, lethargic, and was breathing really fast. I turned up the temp. to 84 F and did a 50% water change + a replenishing amount of salt. 48 hours later, I gave the same dose of medication and none of the catfish (and Black Kuhli Loach)were looking good. The SRC just kept getting worse getting cloudy eyes, blood issuing from his anus, hemorrhaging in the tail, his barbels were curling and deteriorating, and the maxillary barbels curled over his face and met in the middle forming a heart. Yesterday I had to euthanize him using the clove oil process. Minutes before, I added a dose of Ick Guard for the sake of the others at least. Today, the Spotted Raphael is looking in just as bad a shape as was the other, and the each cory and the loach are dying. The two Banjo Catfish look alright from what I can see as well as the Bristlenose Plecostomus. I have a bunch of tetras, a couple platies, and five young angelfish and none of them are affected in the least by whatever disease(s) this is.
I just found out I probably rose the temp. too quickly and adding the salt worsened the effects of what formalin there was in the medication. It looks like I'm going to lose 70% of my catfish and I don't think there is any hope for them at this point.
Can I at least know what this/these disease(s) is/are? All these symptoms obviously can't come from just ich.

[Marc van Arc]

Imho, this sounds like a bacterial infection, which may be caused by lots of things. As the fish weakens, it's very likely to get Ich, which is always a secondary infection (again imo). The combination of a bacterial infection + Ich is very difficult to cure, especially when some time has already passed and/or the incorrect medicins have been used, as these will ruin the water quality, do nothing against the primary disease and thus weaken the fish even more.

[FerocactusLatispinus]

Thank you for telling me.
I really am not sure what to think now though, because yesterday in the daytime all the corys, the loach, and the SRC were lethargic. The loach was lying on his side most of the day. This morning at 6:00 they were all swimming about as if nothing was wrong. Even one of the corys was riding on the air stone stream. I'm glad to see this behavior, but it has me quite puzzled.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Check these out, they may help: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... missbooboo

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... missbooboo

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... lit=+slime

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... lit=+slime

[FerocactusLatispinus]

One thing I forgot to mention, now that those recommended posts reminded me, is that the quality of my water was great, according to my LFS.
But yes, they are looking a little better today. It's funny, the formalin and MG in the medication hasn't adversely affected the four ghost shrimp I have. I just find it rather ironic...

[FerocactusLatispinus]

Well, my SRC died last night. All the others are seemingly improving. There are no more signs of ich or any disease really. They all just seem to now recuperating from stress. I did a 25% water change plus a thorough stirring up of the sand bed and rearrangement. It's nearly ready for a healthy system. I hope they will all recover.

[FerocactusLatispinus]

A few days after the Platydoras armatulus died, my Agamyxis pectinifrons died also. Right now, the whole system is rather stable. However, all the corys and the Brochis have been scraping themselves. It is so frustrating.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Sorry to see the trouble has not gone away. So what exactly has been done ever since this had started? To test Marc's guess, did you use any anti-bacterial meds, gram-positive and/or negative?

Ich does not occur usually all by itself, as Marc said. There are almost always underlying causes - stress from bad water or diet or low oxygen or aggressive tankmates or light, or lack of cover, etc. or some health problem such as a bacterial infection or parasitic infestation (I mean non-ich... as ich are also parasites).

One of the simplest remedies (but carefully administered) is salt + elevated temp. Too much salt too quickly -> shock. Elevated temp -> lessening of oxygen concentration in the water.

[FerocactusLatispinus]

Gram-positive or negative? I don't understand. All I know is I've just done water changes and supplements when I've seen them stressed since Marley died. My guess is that I raised the temp. a whole 10 degrees overnight. I had no idea that it would have started all this. I was told to raise the temp. when doing the treatments. I originally thought that that was to kill the ich, not speed up their growth as I now realize. I really have been misinformed. I'll bet this has likely been happening since the beginning of my establishing an aquarium.

Anyway, my new post talking about 5 corys and a brochis being too sensitive is the continuing record of this whole problem. Scrooge and Marley died from secondary infections and I had only used Rid-Ich +. That's now history, and if I continue to keep this aquarium, the rest will all become history too. You'll understand from reading my new post.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I see. I'll read your new thread later.

There are two groups of bacteria, thus named, and, hence, two groups of anti-bacterial meds.

What do you call supplements?

When people speak of adding salt and raising the temp they mean by 2-3 degrees F, rarely 3-4. Which also often means one must increase the aeration too. Raising 10 degrees overnight and without additional aeration led to shock -> stress -> blow to their immune system -> emergence of parasites (ich is always present on any fish but suppressed by the properly working immune system) and bacterial infections.

It does indeed speed up the life cycle of ich. The salt kills the fry in the free-floating/swimming stage, it cannot kill the burried-in-the-skin ich. Thus, when you speed up this, now broken, cycle you kill off the ich faster.

[FerocactusLatispinus]

By supplements, I just meant water conditioners, like Stress Zyme and Stress Coat. 10 degrees overnight... It truly is a miracle all but two pulled through it all.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Going off of your sarcastic signature, it can be thought of as a fish-keeping application of the Murphy's law: when you think they will die, they pull through; when you think they will pull through, they die.

[FerocactusLatispinus]

Yup, in my opinion, not too many movies made today can compare to the classics!

Moe: "I was just trying to take your census!"
Man: "Well have some!"
Man: (Breaks his cane over Moe's head.)

(Curly gets a ton of cactus spines stuck on his rear, and the others try to remove them.)
Larry: (Cutting off the spines with some scissors.)
Moe: "Hey! Your'e leaving the ends in!"
Larry: "Well, they don't show!"

The Stooges never seem to get old!

Yeah, when that application's realized, it sure can come with a lot of stress. Anxiety is one of those things I like to avoid!