Does API Tap Water Conditioner detoxify NH3 and NO2?

[Viktor Jarikov]

I am having a serious cycling problem in my 1500 gal pond. For several days it was just ammonia, so I was adding Ammo-Lock that converts it into ammonium and all was fine. Yesterday, nitrites started to appear, meaning the NH3-to-NO2 beneficial bacteria started working but the NO2-to-NO3 ones have not kicked in yet.

This morning, NO2 was >2 ppm. Very troubling. So I found this:

Originally Posted by Seachem website about Prime. DIRECTIONS: Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 200 L (50 gallons) of new water. For smaller doses, please note each cap thread is approx. 1 mL). This dose removes approximately 0.6 mg/L ammonia, 3 mg/L chloramine, or 4 mg/L chlorine. May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If adding directly to aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume. Sulfur odor is normal. For exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used. If temperature is > 30 °C (86 °F) and chlorine or ammonia levels are low, use a half dose.

I don't have and have never used Seachem's Prime. I always used and had API Tap Water Conditioner, super strength. The jug label states: To remove chlorine and detoxify heavy metals add 1 mL per 20 US gal (76 L) of tap water being treated. To detoxify chloramines (break the chloramine bond) add 1 mL per 5 US gal (19 L). TIP: To detoxify ammonia released from chloramines or produced by fish waste, use Ammo-Lock.

So, API Tap Water Conditioner and Seachem Prime are somewhat different. I am thinking their main ingredient is the same - the mild reductant sodium thiosulfate, which reduces chlorine to the benign chloride and produces elemental sulfur (yellow stinky stuff) as a non-hazardous by-product. But Seachem Prime detoxifies ammonia too, while API Tap Water Conditioner does not.

Anyhow, sorry about the long intro. So I tried what I had, the API Tap Water Conditioner. Several iterations gave the same result. Here is the most dramatic result I observed so far - see the photo - I added 1 US gal of fresh API Tap Water Conditioner to the 1500 gal pond and the ammonia (really ammonium NH4+, not ammonia NH3 and the test is indiscriminate to both) reading went down from 4 ppm to ~0 ppm (on the left) and the nitrites went from 2 ppm to 0.25 ppm (on the right).

With time, the readings climb back to where they were... in about a day. (And this is consistent with Seachem Prime experience people report: it wears off and needs to be added every 24 h).

Now the question is: do the API Tap Water Conditioner and Seachem Prime mess with the analytical chemical reactions that occur during the test or do they really affect NH3/NH4+ and NO2-? In other words, is it a mascarade and the fish still suffer as they did or does it really help?

I'd understand that sodium thiosulfate could reduce NO2 to the nitrogen gas, but it can do nothing with NH3/NH4+ as the nitrogen in these is in the most reduced state possible.

[Viktor Jarikov]

The result from this morning: NH4+ ~1 ppm; NO2 ~5 ppm (the color rendering on the photo is different than in person; need to work on that).

Going to give them a big water change and try a very slow hydrogen peroxide drip in the hope that H2O2 will react with both NH3/NH4+ and NO2 well before damaging the barely establishing beneficial bacteria colonies. Never done it before so really don't know if it will work. Will monitor by testing.

[PseudaSmart]

1500 gallons is a large amount of water to treat. Have you considered using a product containing Zeolite? It binds with the ammonium and removes it from the water. Removing the ammonium from the water will also cause additional ammonia to convert into ammonium. I have used it a few times in a 180gal tanks and found it to be effective. Don't forget to remove the media when done to eliminate the possibility of it getting back into your tank.

When doing the water change just a reminder that ammonia is more toxic at higher ph levels. The water change will reduce the concentration but if the ph jumps up the remaining will be more toxic.

Good Luck
Jim

[Viktor Jarikov]

Thanks much, Jim. I've never used zeolites for the purposes of removing ammonium (NH4+) but used them in the chemical lab in my profession and read how people use them for our hobby. They sure work but NH3/NH4+ is not my critical problem right now. Ammo-Lock converts it all into NH4+ and the fish are as happy as if there is no ammonia issues and I don't need to keep adding the Ammo-Lock. But...

I think your thinking is that if there is a smaller concentration of NH3/NH4+ in the water, the rate of NO2 production by the BB will decrease, right?

J: Removing the ammonium from the water will also cause additional ammonia to convert into ammonium.
V: You mean the shift of the equilibrium in the NH3 + H2O -> <- NH4+OH- reversible reaction I assume: as the product of the reaction is removed, the equilibrium shifts to the right.

The critical issue is NO2. The reading above is hard to read because there is ~no difference between 2 ppm and 5 ppm on that test - they both look magenta with no hint of bluishness. Anyhow, it is better to assume the worst and that it is 5 ppm, which is real bad.

It is not a tank but a rather messy, temporary (old) concrete pond as you see from the pics of the water change in progress. I am dumping ~1500 gal into the pond over 3 hours (2/3 RO water TDS ~30 ppm and 1/3 raw well water TDS ~1300 ppm, 500 ppm hardness, pH ~7.5; that's their usual water). pH in the pond is stable, around 7.2-7.4. The pump pushes 3000 GPH. The waterfall unit is full of media even though the pond natural surfaces are usually more than enough for BB to settle.

[TwoTankAmin]

You need to do a fast in depth tutorial on the subject.

API kits read total ions, so their test results are always higher than the ones used by scientists. You are correct that they focus on nitrogen and they normally indicate this by using the terms like ammonia-nitrogen or NH3-N. As you move up the ladder to nitrite and nitrate the conversion factors become greater due to the chemistry involved, but the amount of nitrogen does not change.

Next- test kits for ammonia read total ammonia- both NH3 and NH4. The former is highly toxic to fish and levels of .05 ppm or more are a problem. NH4 is way less toxic to fish and itself is not a concern short term until much higher levels. How much ammonia is in each form depends upon the pH and temperature of the water. What this means is .25 ppm of total ammonia can be very bad in one tank while 2 ppm is not a threat in another. Here is a link to a calculator which will do the math for you. I use 0 ppm for salinity in fw tanks. However, do not fool yourself into thinking no level of NH4 is bad. Raise the level enough and it does cause external burns and gill damage. I would be getting very nervous at 4 ppm or so and higher would scare me.
http://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calc ... mmonia.php

I would not change water until I saw the NH3 level closing in on .05 ppm. This is to be modified if the fish show behavior indicating they are in distress. Always use clues from fish behavior over the results of our cheap hobby test kits. Also bear in mind that there is a difference between fish being exposed to some ammonia during the short term time frame involved with cycling and longer term exposure.

Before moving on to nitrite, you should know that dosing Prime or Amquel+ to neutralize high ammonia, nitrite or nitrate has two negative side effects. First, it makes ammonia test results unreliable, so you will have no idea how much there really is. Second, overdosing these products acts to slow the cycle. So your ordeal will last a lot longer.

In aquaculture ponds the traditional method for dealing with elevated nitrite levels is to add chloride to the water. Often this is sodium chloride- i.e. salt. Calcium chloride etc. would work but are usually more expensive and for large ponds this counts. The reason for the chloride addition is because of how nitrite "kills". It basically blocks the bloods ability to carry oxygen.

Brown blood disease occurs in fish when water contains high nitrite concentrations. Nitrite enters the bloodstream through the gills and turns the blood to a chocolate-brown color. Hemoglobin, which transports oxygen in the blood, combines with nitrite to form methemoglobin, which is incapable of oxygen transport. Brown blood cannot carry sufficient amounts of oxygen, and affected fish can suffocate despite
adequate oxygen concentration in the water. This accounts for the gasping behavior often observed in fish with brown blood disease, even when oxygen levels are relatively high.

Sodium chloride (common salt,NaCl) is used to “treat” brown blood disease. Calcium chloride can also be used but is typically more expensive. The chloride portion of salt competes with nitrite for absorption through the gills....... Sodium chloride (common salt,NaCl) is used to “treat” brown blood disease. Calcium chloride can also be used but is typically more expensive. The chloride portion of salt competes with nitrite for absorption through the gills.......

Maintaining at least a 10 to 1 ratio of chloride to nitrite in a pond effectively prevents nitrite from
entering catfish. Where catfish (or other fish) have bacterial and/or parasite diseases, their sensitivity
to nitrite may be greater, and a higher chloride-to-nitrite ratio may be needed to afford added protection from nitrite invasion into the bloodstream.

from https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/event/g ... sheet/110/

Lastly, while ammonia becomes more toxic the higher the pH, for nitrite it is the opposite. It becomes more harmful the lower the pH.

[PseudaSmart]

Great answer. I will store this for future reference.
jim

[Viktor Jarikov]

Thanks much, TwoTankAmin. Yeah, I've read about the chloride addition to battle NO2. Do you know if it will slow the cycling? As this is what I was not sure/afraid of to just go ahead and try. But since this is proven to work, it is infinitely better than experimenting with hydrogen peroxide as I had intended first.

Here the latest results after the water change:

Left to right:
-- before WC NH3 ~1 ppm, NO2 ~2-5 ppm;
-- after WC NH3 ~0.25 ppm, NO2 ~2-5 ppm (!!??);
-- raw well water NH3 ~0.25 ppm, NO2 ~0 ppm;
-- RO water NH3 ~0 ppm, NO2 ~0 ppm.

I am clueless as to why the NO2 level has not changed after the WC.

Raw well water and the RO water show the usual results. IDK if the 0.25 ppm in the raw water mostly NH3 or mostly NH4+. I need to send it to a lab. If only I still had access to my 500 MHz NMR, I imagine a simple Nitrogen-15 spectrum would quickly tell me...

Gotta go get my 80 lbs salt bags now...

[Viktor Jarikov]

Ok, see guys if I got it more or less right.

5 ppm NO2- = 5 mg/L = 0.005 g per liter

~1500 gal = ~6000 L; hence 0.005 g/L x 6000 L = I have 30 g of NO2- total in my pond

we need to go molecule-to-molecule, not gram-to-gram, I assume from the TwoTankAmin post and other of my readings.

30 g of NO2- divided by its molecular mass of 46 g/mole = 0.65 mole, of course IDK the counter-cation but I am not sure if I need to? Probably Na+?

at 10 : 1 Cl- : NO2- ratio I need 6.5 mole NaCl; times 58 g/mole = 378 g, say roughly a pound.

I just added 10 lbs, so that should cover it.

Objections? Corrections?

[Viktor Jarikov]

2:30 pm. Salt added. Tests show the same thing as right after the WC: NH3/NH4+ 0.25 ppm; NO2- 2-5 ppm. Hopefully the salt will alleviate the NO2 effect. Will add a little bit of Ammo-Lock to eliminate the ammonia effect.

[snowball]

I may be missing something, and please don't take this the wrong way, but what's your hurry? Why don't you just wait for the pond to cycle at its own accord?

Putting the chemistry aside, this is the crux of the matter to me:

Before moving on to nitrite, you should know that dosing Prime or Amquel+ to neutralize high ammonia, nitrite or nitrate has two negative side effects. First, it makes ammonia test results unreliable, so you will have no idea how much there really is. Second, overdosing these products acts to slow the cycle. So your ordeal will last a lot longer.

This is why I have never been keen on adding chemicals to a new tank, even with chloramines in the local tap water I have found it is so much easier and less stressful to just wait it out.

As to your ammonia problem, I would be looking for possible causes as to why it is remaining high in the first place. Could it be the water supply? A problem with filtration? Might something be leaching into the pond? Is there any chance there may be a small dead animal trapped under the rocks at the edge? Perhaps you've already eliminated such factors, but I'm not sure if dosing with one product and then another when you don't get the test results you're after is the best way to go about it.

If it were my pond I would be inclined to just leave it for a week or two and not get stressed, but I'm not in your shoes and don't know situation (other than you will have an awesome pond when it's all sorted!). Good luck and I hope it all comes together for you soon.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Many thanks for your helpful, pointed questions, Snowball. I appreciate.

The urgency is that there is fish in the pond. I've rehomed 6 biggest ones (~50-60 lbs all together) but there is still about 40 smaller fish in the pond (~30 lbs) and I have no other place for them... because I just lost my jaccuzzi-turned-pond where they'd be fine (the pipes disconnected/broke off).

The trouble started a while ago as I was battling a stubborn parasite problem (tentatively fish lice). It has been an ongoing problem for more than a year, on and off. I think last time, I kicked back my bio-filter too much without realizing it. Gave the pond the usual 3 weeks to recover without feeding and started feeding without checking the water (the behavior was normal). But the pond was not ready for this, not at all. Hence, my problems arose. When all together, my guys put away several pounds of fleshy foods and a pound or two of dried foods per sitting...

Anyhow, last night NH3/NH4+ was the same 0.25 ppm, NO2 2-5 ppm.

This morning NH3/NH4+ (really all locked into NH4+) is 0.5 ppm. NO2 2-5 ppm.

I started thinking about what TwoTankAmin had said about the tests reading for the elements, that is atomic Nitrogen in a certain oxidative state, not the compounds containing them. Hence, I think my math above needs to be corrected:

Instead of using the molecular mass of NO2- of 46 g/mole, I probably need to use the atomic mass of elemental nitrogen of 14 g/mole. Thus, everything must be scaled up by 46/14 = 3.3 times --> not 0.65 but 2.14 moles of Nitrogen (in NO2-) --> 21.4 moles of NaCl at 10:1 molecular ratio --> 1243 g = ~3 lbs of NaCl.

So, I just finished adding another 10 lbs. The pond has now 20 lbs of NaCl = 9.1 kg in 6000 L/6000 kg --> this amounts to ~1500 ppm of salinity = 1.5 ppt = 0.15%.

The question is again the same I asked of TwoTankAmin: will this slow down/mess up my BB establishment, colonizing, and growth?

The pond temp is ~85 F steady, lots of flow and exceptional aeration. Right now the continuous water change is at the rate of 1 complete turn-over in a week (because I added the salt and the ammo-lock) but usually a complete turn over occurs every day. There is enough surface area in the pond+filter available to BB to handle ~300 lbs of fish or more.

Several says ago I added a gallon of Bio-Boost - BB from PetSolutions.com. And a whole can of BB's from AquaScape (250 g powder, an~ yearly doze but it was very old).

[Viktor Jarikov]

This morning, NH4+ is down to 0.25 ppm; NO2 is about the same 2-5 ppm. Ammo-Lock and salt are present at the same concentrations as yesterday. Hard to see if the fish are stressed or not in the pond. Swimmers swim around; hiders hide. I have not fed them in a couple of weeks and can't feed them now either, otherwise I could judge by their appetite. At least no flashing, no gasping or too heavy breathing, or going to the surface, no sores, reddened areas, etc.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Happy to report that the salt didn't appear to slow down the cycling.

This morning both NH4+ and NO2 are between 0 and 0.25 ppm, much closer to 0.

In the pic: left - the pond, center and right - two of my well-running indoor tanks with zero NH3 and zero NO2. Yellows - NH3 test trio. Cyan - NO2 test trio.

[PseudaSmart]

Nice to see a success story. Good information = good result. I will save this thread for my records.

[TwoTankAmin]

Sorry, I have not been back in a while. The chloride does not do anything yo the nitrite, it block the nitrite from doing damage inside a fish. So it wont slow the cycle in that respect.

The only danger would be in regards to the ammonia bacs. While the same ones handle nitrite oxidation in both fresh and salt water, the ammonia bacs are different. So the risk would be adding too much salt might discourage the good fw ammonia oxidizers one has established and then encourage the sw ones to colonize. However, my best guess is that the level of salt isn't so great and the amount of time it is in the water so long as to cause this change over to occur.

Glad to see it worked out.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Thanks so much for your help. Pseudasmart's advice on zeolites was a good one but I didn't have them at hand, neither it is cheap, especially for a 1500 gal pond. Salt is cheap and I have that. I think you saved my fish. Strange that after all these years, I've never had to battle NO2 much at all. It was a hole in my experience and you, my friend, filled it.

Yes, I understand that the chloride anion is just an absorption competitor at the fish's gill surface.

The f/w versus s/w bacteria knowledge is also new to me. I appreciate it.

Yes, the salinity I used was far from marine. 1500 ppm = 0.15% is low end brackish. Gulf of Mexico 10 miles from us is 32,000 ppm = 3.2%.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Tonight, both NH3 and NO2 read zero. So, I gave them a good feeding, not full size but perhaps half the norm. Will see what it looks like in the morning.

I had increased the water input to normal this morning (it simply overflows - that's my poor man's continuous water change). In a couple of days, the Ammo-Lock and the salt should be ~90% gone.

[Viktor Jarikov]

After the first feeding, both NH4+ and NO2 increased to ~0.25 ppm (yesterday morning) and then came down to zero (yesterday night).

So I fed again yesterday night, perhaps 40% of the normal amount. This morning both NH4+ and NO2 are between zero and 0.25 ppm, somewhere near the mid-point.

Still cycling but looking on track.

[TwoTankAmin]

Glad to have been able to help. I have spent a lot of time over the last 3+ years researching this topic, I have read more research studies on nitrifying bacteria than anybody not working on a degree should. And that led me to do almost as much exploring regarding test kits how they work and where they tend to be unreliable. And this led to researching the effects of both ammonia and nitrite on fish.

We all know ammonia and nitrite are not good for fish but a lot of urban myths on this now abound in the hobby. One is having to do massive water change to reduce levels of ammonia and/or nitrite that do not actually need to be reduced. Without going into more detail than most folks want to know, it boils down to understanding the difference between ammonia the gas, NH3, and ammonium, NH4. The former is harmful at about .05 ppm and the latter can be tolerated by many fish for some time at much much higher levels- over 2 ppm. The amount of each form for any given total ammonia reading depends on the pH and temp of the water. So in a rift lake African cichlid tank a reading of .25 or .50 ppm of total ammonia can be fatal but in a tank of SA fish at pH 7.0 it is not even a concern for the period of time involved with a cycle. As you saw for yourself nitrite can be handled with a bit of salt instead of a massive water change as well. For those who need it, here is a link to an ammonia calculator. it will work for sw and fw. For fw I enter 0 for salinity.

The primary difference between the two different forms of ammonia is that the extra H in NH4 prevents the molecule from being able to pass through the gill into the fish's system. The odd thing about this is that once the NH3 gets into the bloodstream of the fish, it is converted in NH4 which is what actually causes the damage. However, NH4 exposure at higher levels and for more than a short term can burn fish. So it is not completely harmless by any means. I do a lot of helping on other sites getting new fish keepers though cycling, including fish in. I always tell them to observe their fish. If the fish show signs of distress during cycling, it doesn't matter what the readings say, take remedial action. The reverse also applies. If the numbers indicate that fish should be in distress, but they clearly are not, hold off.

For those who need it, here is a link to an ammonia calculator. It will work for sw and fw. For fw I enter 0 for salinity. Unless your test kit says it reads ammonia-nitrogen or nitrite-nitrogen ( or -N), do not use that setting. http://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calc ... mmonia.php


When cycling a tank with fish, it is a real dance. On one hand, the higher one can let ammonia and nitrite rise (to a point) the faster the tank will cycle. That must be counterbalanced with the need to cause no permanent harm to the fish. This takes a lot more knowledge and work that pulling of a fishless cycle.

Finally, just so folks know. Both Dr. Tim's One and Only Nitrifying Bacteria and Tetra's Safe Start are viable live bottled bacteria that should work (poor handling and/or out of date bottles mean they likely wont). They can be used to get a tank cycled without fish in about a week or to rescue a fish in cycle out of control.

[Viktor Jarikov]

The write-up is much appreciated, TwoTankAmin!

Yesterday night and this morning both NH3 and NO2 are at zero.