Raising The Eggs Manually (Ancistrus)

[JamesFish]

Hi All,

While I have seen the advice do it with an air stone if required I used a external breeding trap that sits on the side of the tank and circulates water with the main tank. This driven by an air pump on the marina hang on breeding box I used the 1.2L model.

I didn't do this by choice my male was starting to take a beating against the bigger female and was yet to contend with a bigger clown loach so moved him tanks sadly after about 20 minutes it became clear that since I had to remove the eggs from the ornament he wasn't going to attend to the bundle.

The eggs were removed without touching by my hands I realised the batch was loose on the ornament wall and a gentle nudge got them into the net than bag. I nudged using a spare bit of airline.

I sat the eggs directly under the input from the tank and left them. Approximately 5 days later they have begun hatching.

I turned the egg bundle over and this allowed more fry to leave the bundle my guess this is something the male does

[JamesFish]

Few more little bits of information. The eggs seem to hatch slowly as the first ones came out around 3pm its now 7:30pm and some are still emerging.

They are all heading for the darkest spot they can find something a little limited in the box but they seem to be settling for the corners.

I placed the slate in with the algae in it. The hope is in the couple of days it takes to consume the egg sacks it will spread to some of the box.

Some of the eggs have gone white / showing signs of fungus the tank has alder cones added 3-4 days ago its possible this prevented the few bad ones from ruining the rest of the batch.

The eggs appear to be leaving behind a white sort of binding where the fry emerge from I will leave as much of this behind as possible to see if they eat it.

[JamesFish]

Little update for a semi live feed.

Nearly all the eggs have hatched and majority are grouping up. 1 or 2 have slipped though the traps outlet gate into the main tank but not many. Seems they are happy enough in the trap. Will remove the gate and let them out once the skins harden.

I have 2 young syno's in this tank and until they are to chewy I'm sure they would eat them for dinner happily.

[JamesFish]

My camera is not very good on my phone but as this is slightly interesting. They seem to be piling up in the corner ignoring the slate cover on offer or anything else.

P.s Hope someone finds this interesting or useful.

[PseudaSmart]

Looks like you are doing a good job. I agree on not using air stones for these guys. I found the 'tumblers' battered the eggs even with only a small amount of air.

I have been trying to figure out when they stop piling into the corners and hide under wood and such. So far I have not found a set timer reason. Please keep track of this.
Thanks,

Jim

[.Plecomania.]

they stop piling into corners after they absorbed their egg sacks and start feeding enough and start looking like little plecos.
I hatched eggs like this before with great success

[PseudaSmart]

My L600 fry are still in the corners after one month even though there are, in my opinion, better places to hide. I have been raising them for years and have never paid attention before.

Always something to learn.

[JamesFish]

Hi All,

For those interested they are still in the corner but more spread out now. Have been feeding liquid fry number 1 into the tank for 2 days now 3x a day. They are starting to gain some colour now and the egg sacks are getting smaller.

I've slowed the air pump down using a control on the line to stop it gurgling and its now getting a decent flow without the headache noise.

With the exception of about 10 eggs they all appear to have hatched and what I thought was fungus was in fact the sticky bit to attach the sack to the wall. 3-5 eggs appear to have developed but never born as such and died.

The one who escaped the other day appears to have been eaten in the main tank no realise surprise Dad is not about to defend them.

[.Plecomania.]

they arent going to eat until their eggs sacs are gone.
I put in an almond leaf in their breeder trap and some driftwood to hide under or to stick to. i started mine out with greens like green pease and zucchini.

[JamesFish]

Still all chugging happily am continuing to add liquid fry as according to the manual you should add it before they hatch for best results.

Anyone seeking to do this regularly I suggest a better setup than me as my syno's will eat the little ones or I could let them out in the main tank.

Will be adding a bit of cucumber tomorrow as the egg sacks are nearly gone. They a bit of slate with algae on it if any need nibbles now. Normally the bigger ones clean this in minutes so see how it goes.

They have however spread out and moved getting their colour already. I'm not sure if they are developing better or worse without Dad's care as I am giving them far more care than earlier batches have had. Bigger tank with better water previously raised in a crowed 2ft or a 30l so a much better home a lightly stocked 2ft. Was planning on reclaiming it for cats but that's another story!.

[.Plecomania.]

they need more cover. they need to be able to hide well, give them some wood or dried leaves or both. or even tank decor like plastic plants.

[JamesFish]

Hi Plecomania,

Thanks for that couldn't do much in the 1.2L breeding trap so settled for wedging some card board between the tank and the trap. A small towel over the top and some greens sunk in.

They out and feeding the last remaining side is blocked out by the curtain seems they like it in the couple of peeks I sneaked. Will check again tonight but looks like that and turning the water darker using alder cones is to their liking.

If they grow well they can be released into main tank soon as possible to give them room to grow but need to be tough enough to shrug off the bigger tank mates. Sadly can't move anything as meds in tank due to an ill fish. Not helpful but couldn't move fry onto any other tank due to lid designs. Hopefully they wont mind the meds and it will work quickly on the sick fish.

[JamesFish]

Fry are still doing well have now eaten allot of Veg. Have introduced them a little each day to flake and small big of algae wafer. 3 have escaped into the main tank and appear to have lasted over 24 hours so my guess is nobody is eating them. Planning to hold the bulk in the breeding trap for now and may let the gate open so they can flop into main tank slowly.

Feed has been cucumber, spirlunia flake, hikari algae wafer, shelled garden peas, liquid fry number one stopped today and a bit of slate covered in algae.

They have coloured up and apear to be doing well. Meds are stopping in the tank so give it a few days and can give them a nice big water change & gravel clean before they rummage out.

[JamesFish]

For anyone following this they are all doing fine. Massive numbers have escaped the breeding box of their own accord. By looks of it they ate nearly all the shelled pea's and went looking for more food. Their goes my chance to gravel clean or stir it up as they are everywhere in the tank. They seem to really like the small areas the other residents cant get to.

The breeding box is blacked out mostly apart from for taking the picture so they feel at home in it.

[.Plecomania.]

now make sure the ones in the tank can get food. i have lost many because they starved when they were too little released into a huge tank. they didnt know what to do or where to go when i fed them.

[JamesFish]

Hi Pleco,

Thanks for the advice split the veg up. So far they have eaten 2 cucumbers, 1 tin of garden pea's (Boiled and shelled) and pretty much ignored anything not fresh. This includes flake so I don't know if they don't want it or just like what else is on offer as everyday is fresh greens.

So far have not seen any dead ones but have seen one with what appears to be a bent back but will keep an eye on him if he remains in the breeding trap. Nearly all have escaped now on their own will.

The daily routine is a 10-15% water change since they escaped into the main tank. While they were still eggs I removed allot of MTS from the tank and have continued to remove every 2-3 nights more. This is having a very visible effect on their size and numbers. The hope is this will let the little ancistrus compete for the food better. The trap is stirred out into the main tank via its flow out to get bulk of debris out that it collecting.

Contents of the tank Ancistrus lots of, 1 female guppy, 1 bronze cory, 2 galaxy rasbora, 1 porthole catfish and 2 very young syndonsis eurptus. Nothing appears to be eating them.

On plecomania's advice have split the fresh veg up into 4 places round the tank. 1 in the trap with a dwindling number of little un's in it. The other 3 go each end and in the middle of the tank.

I've stopped using liquid fry 2 days ago and continue to use flake / 1/3 -1/2 a algae wafer split round the tank.

Apart from frequent small water changes plan is to leave the rest un changed and clear out the fresh veg nightly to limit waste. The gravel is currently not to bad I want to wait till they are bigger before cleaning the filter or the gravel so am prepared to wait another week or 2 till hopefully they are big enough.

If you wish to check how old your fry are this thread may give you some idea. I have no idea if mine are growing fast or not the larger ones in the pics are from a previous batch.

[.Plecomania.]

yours seem to be growing well, i am glad to see they are eating in the tank!
keep at it

[JamesFish]

Sorry been a little busy so haven't updated here.

Attached is a picture from the 11th continuing with a cucumber diet for another day than its back to boiling garden peas. haven't had to fish any out by hand so assuming they are doing well all the ones I see on the glass are seeming okay. Hard to tell bellies are so tiny. I am noticing them more and more around the tank so can only think they must be doing well and growing fast.

Daily 1 bucket of water changed and replacement veg added nothing exciting. I forgot how much hard work this was going to be keeping the tank conditions in check while they grow.

[PseudaSmart]

Nice job. By the time of the next spawn you will have the process figured out.

Jim

[JamesFish]

Hi ,

Thanks yes am working it out slowly, I didn't do this lot on purpose but am dealing with it. Suggest anyone reading this and thinking I will do that get a bigger tank than my 2ft just 1 spawn has running hard work with all the veg. Pretty much daily water changes and cleaning gravel in sections to stop the under gravel clogging up.

[.Plecomania.]

nice!

[Taratron]

Having to do the same thing right now, my breeder blue eyed male kicked his clutch out for whatever reason he had. There weren't that many eggs though, usually he broods over twice what there was. Any reason why a male would do that, other than the eggs are bad or he is stressed?

[JamesFish]

Hi,

Only reason I can think of given my limited experience is the male didn't feel comfortable with the eggs he had to protect. Or he felt something was wrong with them. Possible a scuffle caused some to be ejected from the spawn site. My male has grown considerably in strength and size since his first batch and this tells by the damage he inflicted on the female and his ability to fend of a clown loach bigger than him.

For the update I have switched to pea's and clearing them out completely every 2 days ornaments and all to make sure I get them all. Appears they like frozen over tinned possibly the taste. Dad is back in with them rather than the little 30l he's been sitting in and appears to have chosen a new hiding spot. Synodontis still doing well with them but are very young, also introduced them to 2 albino cory who are happy with them.

The tank gets about 5-6 water changes a week still. 10% on all but one that is 25% and the gravel is cleaned once a week due to the fresh veg making a mess.

Its a peaceful tank as everything is young or a very good community fish. Down side is its only a 2ft meaning I have to do allot of work to keep the water reasonable. Everything currently seems happy and will monitor. Have an 18" that might take 4-10 of them if they become a problem and will put 3-5 into the 30l to break some off. The male sadly has to stay separate from the female as otherwise they will breed again.

So onto the more interesting part and some pictures.

[.Plecomania.]

wow that puts me to shame i barely do 2 times a week 12.5% at a time.

[JamesFish]

Well today was a sad day. Cut a fresh cucumber open last night washed it and placed in tank. All the little guys swam over and started eating. Today fished out probably 30-50% of them dead.

Appears it had some sort of pesticide still on it despite being washed. Very unpleasant task.

Tested water Nitrates were at 80 but that's not terrible considering my tap is 20-40 so don't believe that to have been cause. No filters jammed and all fish did not go up top so dont believe it was an O2 issue.

I did miss 1 10% water change but don't believe that would have caused the mass deaths. The cucumber was virtually untouched so believe once they realised something was wrong they must have left it alone.

None of the larger fish in the tank suffered or the rather difficult rasbora I have that are picky about what they eat.

Good number of fry are still alive but switching to using spirulina flake and algae wafers broken up now don't wish a repeat of this morning on anyone.

Only change was the cucumber rest of tank remained same. Removed and 25% water change done everything seems happier now.

Perhaps sticking to veg you have to boil is safer.

[.Plecomania.]

i agree it must have been the cucumber itself. such shame

[JamesFish]

For anyone interested the remaining fry are all active and shuffling around. Will have another water change today and hopefully this hard lesson will save other fry from the same fate.

Can still see 35 in the tank and that's without moving any cover to find who's under what bit.

[JamesFish]

Still going strong they are remarkably tough and settled in now.

Feeding time is dull unless its greens. Fresh Veg after 3-4 days of dried food has sent them crazy.

Trying to insert a video but can't seem to manage it so stuck them on a blog I'm using to store a few odds and ends.

http://jamesfishtank.blogspot.co.uk/

Its a google blog so google now owns it all

[.Plecomania.]

looks like a youtube vid, just post the youtube link
They look good!

[JamesFish]

Still chugging haven't worked out how to load a video on here and the last one is on utube but not showing under my account for some reason. Who knows I probably just haven't used it correctly.

A small update still all doing well and the tank mate I'm most worried about is tolerating them nicely.