What's is this? 7 years old and still no ID!!

lancetrickey · Post by **lancetrickey** » 12 Dec 2003, 23:45

I think I bought this fish as a "Congo Cat" . He was about 2 inches long then.

http://homepage.mac.com/lancetrickey/PhotoAlbum8.html

Katman · Post by **Katman** » 13 Dec 2003, 00:20

It looks to me like Ictaturus serracanthrus

magnum4 · Post by **magnum4** » 13 Dec 2003, 00:59

Katman i thought it was Ameiurus serracanthus(spotted bullhead)

an if this isn't the one you mean then you've lost me(not hard)

Post by **Rusty** » 13 Dec 2003, 01:10

Ictalurus serracanthus is a synonym of Ameiurus serracanthus.

Rusty

lancetrickey · Post by **lancetrickey** » 13 Dec 2003, 02:04

Katman wrote:It looks to me like Ictaturus serracanthrus

or Ameiurus serracanthus?? That would explain why I've failed in the ID. I never once considered it North American.

I found this .... http://www.nanfa.org/fif/spotted_bullhead.htm , close but no cigar.

the only things similar are the size and spots and the fact that it is a catfish.

if you note in the pictures of my mystery fish, there is no fin membrane of any kind.

all the fins, if that's what you'd call them, are small fleshy webbing between the body and a small boney spine.

The cuadal fin is also fleshy and very spotted. It also points downward like the rudder of a boat and never opens.

I'll try to get some better pictures.

I'm not comfortable with that yet.....

Post by **Rusty** » 13 Dec 2003, 14:56

That's because the fins on your fish are badly damaged. I'm almost sure it's Ameiurus serracanthus.

Rusty

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 13 Dec 2003, 16:11

Rusty wrote:That's because the fins on your fish are badly damaged. I'm almost sure it's Ameiurus serracanthus.

Yup, at some point in the past your fish has suffered severe damage to the finnage, but that's what it is. Obviously a survivor, deserving of another 7 years TLC.

lancetrickey · Post by **lancetrickey** » 14 Dec 2003, 05:30

coelacanth wrote:
Rusty wrote:That's because the fins on your fish are badly damaged. I'm almost sure it's Ameiurus serracanthus.
Yup, at some point in the past your fish has suffered severe damage to the finnage, but that's what it is. Obviously a survivor, deserving of another 7 years TLC.

That's sort of makes me sad in a way, and puzzeled.... He's been very well cared for and hasn't had any infections. When I bought him he was about 2-3 inches long and there were other's in the tank with him with no disernable differences. That being said there are strong resemblences to any pictures I've seen of Ameiurus serracanthus.

maybe a sport? I can't think of a time when fin damage like that could have occured.

anyway , If it's fin damage. 20 years of Aquariums and I've never seem anything like it.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 14 Dec 2003, 14:25

Anyone else notice that every picture I have seen of A. serracanthus appears to have damaged fins. Even those taken in the wild. Could I put forward the theory that fins on this species naturally degenerate for some reason and that is possibly accelerated in captivity?

Jools

Katman · Post by **Katman** » 14 Dec 2003, 15:10

A. serracanthus is one of the dominant species of catfish in Florida. I have never noticed tattered fins in the wild healthy fish population. I would think this due to a
break down in the regeneration process, the reasons for this could be caused by
many things ,and I am no expert on this . So I will pass this on to someone who knows
what they are talking about. (hopefully)

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 14 Dec 2003, 15:19

Katman wrote:A. serracanthus is one of the dominant species of catfish in Florida. I have never noticed tattered fins in the wild healthy fish population.

How odd, maybe it IS something to do with captivity. Must be coincidence that the 3 pictures I have seen of this species (it's not a catfish I have met) are all tattered. Does anyone have a photo of them with their fins in "good order"?

Jools

Katman · Post by **Katman** » 14 Dec 2003, 15:44

I will make it a priority to get pictures of wild caught fish ,plus I should have a couple
in a pond . I will check.

lancetrickey · Post by **lancetrickey** » 14 Dec 2003, 15:57

Jools wrote:Anyone else notice that every picture I have seen of A. serracanthus appears to have damaged fins. Even those taken in the wild. Could I put forward the theory that fins on this species naturally degenerate for some reason and that is possibly accelerated in captivity?

Jools

My particular specimen, if we presume A. serracanthus, had fins like it does now since it was juvenile. All membrane producing tissue , on all fins, has apparently stopped functioning. There was no degeneration. At least none that I could observe.

Also , in the pictures I've found so far, there should be a fairly prominent dorsal spine. My specimen has no such spine. The dorsal and pectoral spines are indentical small skin covered spines.

So. The pictures I posted really can't be taken as good example of this.

However, if we presume A. serracanthus, I can tell you that A. serracanthus is a very aggressive eater. I can easily see how in the wild, in waters with a rocky substrate, A. serracanthus would be constantly thrashing and barrel rolling against the rocks.
All information I've found thusfar indicates that A. serracanthus does indeed has a preference for rocky bottoms.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 14 Dec 2003, 16:08

lancetrickey wrote:So. The pictures I posted really can't be taken as good example of this.

I was discounting your pictures. All other pictures I have seen show fish with ragged fins.

Jools

lancetrickey · Post by **lancetrickey** » 14 Dec 2003, 16:23

Jools wrote:
lancetrickey wrote:So. The pictures I posted really can't be taken as good example of this.
I was discounting your pictures. All other pictures I have seen show fish with ragged fins.

Jools

me too

kwalker · Post by **kwalker** » 14 Dec 2003, 16:39

one of the things i've noticed when out collecting these fish is that when they are young fry, (2-3 inches) , that they are very slugish and slow moving. slow enough to catch in a 6 aquarium net. this in my opinion makes them easy prey when they are young. one of the reasons for this might be that the water temps here are only about 60 degrees when i catch them. ,aybe that is what makes them so sluggish. i have also caught other specimens that are young adults and they too have tattered andtorn fins. just my 2 cents.

ken

Katman · Post by **Katman** » 14 Dec 2003, 17:10

I am assuming this fish came from Fla., only because the majority of the fish come
from there, the fish is very common, and in March/April when they spawn they are dipped up by the thousands and sold as black cats. Some of the kids that collect these
fish have little regard for the fish. Plus they are caught when they are about one inch
long and easly damaged. If they happen to get their fins caught in the net they brake
the fins off. Also as the fish were larger they may have been in a vat of fin nippers.
In Fla. rocks are something that are imported, If a cat fish don't like mud or sand they
have to move elsewhere.
Fish normally do not damage their fins to that extent in normal life (sometimes mating).
If they did it would restrict their mobility ,therefor making them easy prey.
I don't think it was any thing that you could have prevented. Being a fish is not an easy
life , You have to remember they are no more than food in the food chain. They are
only close to perfect when taken out of the chain ,other wise every thing in nature
is working against them.
I have found that fins that are clipped more than a couple of times do not grow back
normally if at all.

Katman · Post by **Katman** » 15 Dec 2003, 20:54

Jools , I caught you a fish. As I am not sure how to post it on the fourm ,you will
find it in your E mail . I guess I don't stop to think how good I have it , But this time
I did . I took my fishing pole any walked out to the pond. There I sat down with the
purpose of catching you a Bull head. First fish was a asian redtail , next was a channel
cat ,next was an Allumminium cat, then I caught the bullhead. ( I use common names
because this is fun). All the time I was thinking of all the fourm members that would
love to do this. And ofcoarce the ones that think I should not be doing it.

Anyway here is the picture I promised.