What catfish are you getting next?

[pleconut]

Just saw post what new catfish did you get my question is what's next on your list? For me some more L397s.

[catfishchaos]

A few

Loricaria sp`rio_atabapo`

will be coming for my 30 gallon soon enough and I'm waiting for a list from my dealer to see what corydoras sp will be available for a little side project. Hopefully some

Corydoras sp(cw051)

will make there way onto the list but thats wishful thinking, bottom line some sort of corydoras.

[bekateen]

It certainly won't be my NEXT acquisition, but my ultimate prize would be

L397

(which so many of you in England seem to have ... ... ... ... oh, the rush of emotions when something seems so close, and yet so far away. LOL).

To my friends across the pond, I'm curious: Besides the fact that there seems to be a HUGE availability discrepancy between the USA and the UK/Europe with regard to L397 (and several other fish, but I'll focus my comments on L397 for now), is there also a price discrepancy, one which makes this fish more affordable in the UK/Europe than in the USA? Or do you folks just have to buckle down and save a lot of cash, or donate a spare body part (lots of internal organs come in pairs; most people are healthy enough that they could afford to trade a kidney, an adrenal, an ovary or a testicle... maybe not a lung though), or something like that to get your colonies of L397?

Case in point, L397 recently went on sale here in the Western USA on Aquabid, a group of 5 juveniles for $900 USD. For that much money, I could go to my local discount store and buy a big television - specifically, a 60" 1080p Smart LED LCD TV (either LG or Samsung brand)... This is real; I looked it up. Does this mean that L397 are grossly overpriced in the USA? Probably not - I am somewhat familiar with the person selling these particular specimens (captive bred by him, I suspect); he sells several other exotic plecos for reasonable prices, and I know he is able to sell his L397 for this price; so I don't think he's gouging us with this price; I honestly believe that this is the going "market value" of L397 in the USA.

By contrast,

Panaqolus maccus

are practically "a dime a dozen" around my parts, even though I've read in some forum threads that some of you have trouble finding this species in Europe. What is the cost of P. maccus over here? About the same price as a "Big Mac" meal combo at McDonalds - $5 or $6 USD for an adult. What is its cost in Europe? I don't know exactly, but when I've seen people mention prices in the past and I converted their quoted prices (from either Euros or pounds) to US dollars, they seem to cost you much more than they ought to, in my opinion.

I understand that P. maccus and L397 are not even in the same league when it comes to desirability and price, so I'm not trying to suggest that L397 should be as cheap as P. maccus. But I'm just trying to get some exposure to how the market prices work on the two sides of the Atlantic for fish like L397, which seem relatively abundant over in the UK and Europe, but as rare as hen's teeth in the USA.

I know this has taken us off-topic from the OP. So if you wish to comment but don't wish to distract this thread, please PM me.

Getting back to the OP. I won't get any L397 for a while yet, mainly because of the price, but also because of my skill level: If I'm going to invest so much money in a group of 4-8 of these fishes (which is what I'd want to buy), then I want to know that I am fully prepared to take care of them BEFORE I buy them. So for now, I am spending my time "cutting my teeth" on less expensive species (Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus, P. maccus, P. albomaculatus, and eventually Hemiancistrus guahiborum (okay, so practically speaking, H. guahiborum will be my NEXT purchase), along with some other non-pleco cats) to gain care and husbandry experience without jeopardizing such a costly investment. Then, in a couple of more years, I think I'll be ready to dive in, sell my 60" LCD Smart television (should I ever buy one of THOSE, since I don't own one of them yet either... nor will I ever, probably, since they don't hold much interest for me), and get me some L397!


Cheers, Eric

[pleconut]

The price of mine was £25 sterling each working out less than a l no such as a golden nugget /green phantom/ snowball pleco would cost at my local lfs but when I was trying to track them down i found prices at £100 for one fish luckily I found a local breeder through aquarist classified who lives less than an hour away from me. The parents of mine had bred so much he had too much offspring hence the lowish price. He also has other breeding projects like zebra plecos but like you said I'd want more practise to keep fish that costs this much.

[pleconut]

One I have already

[pleconut]

Another

[pleconut]

One more four in total another 3 this week

[bekateen]

Thanks for the info. By comparison, I can easily find gold nuggets and green phantoms at many fish stores in my local area at prices between $30-60 USD per fish, depending on their size and the "pricey-ness" of the store. But the L397s for sale over here work out to $180 USD per fish.... Even zebras can be found for sale in the $100-150 USD range - less than these L397s. (Again, I want to be clear that I'm not criticizing the vendor of these fish; I believe simply that this is the going price or market value for these fish in the USA).

Cheers, Eric

[matthewfaulkner]

Eric, from memory (so I could be talking out of my arse), L397 weren't prevalent in the UK until a few years ago. To my knowledge, the now closed, Rare Aquatics obtained around 100 of the first fish. They were selling at £150 each. Since then I've seen a few more shipments, combined with 'home' breeding, results in our lower prices.

[bekateen]

Thanks Matthew. The dynamic of your price drop, as you described it, is about what I expect will happen with this fish over here eventually. It's just a little surprising that the process is so slow.

Part of this process I think also requires a small amount of benevolence on the part of the hobbyists who breed these at home and trade them in at LFS or at aquarium club auctions, etc. For example, I've met a really nice LFS owner who went out of his way to help me get some unusual fish at a very low price (far below retail), and he did it solely because he values hobbyists who are interested in fish other than goldfish, neon tetras, zebra danios, guppies, etc. ... Not that there's anything wrong with those, but they are run-of-the-mill fish IMHO; of course, he doesn't mind these other fish either - I'm pretty sure their sales are his bread-and-butter, how he keeps his shop open from day to day. But he wants to encourage hobbyists to "up their game" and become better, more involved fish keepers, and that's why he tries to help people like us get our hands on the oddballs whenever he can. So I plan to reciprocate when (if) I successfully raise my new

Centromochlus perugiae

fry (they haven't hatched yet, but any day now). I paid $10 USD each retail for the fish in August (a fair price, I feel), but I will trade the fish to him for a low price so he can sell them at his LFS for about $5-6 each. (To be clear, I did not get these oil cats from this LFS; I bought them at WetSpot Tropical Fish... Thank you, WetSpot; I like my oil cats ).

The lower price benefits everyone (except maybe the fish) - more hobbyists will be willing to buy them at the cheaper price, therefore the LFS owner will be able to sell them faster at the cheaper price, which means I will be able to get them out of my tanks faster (I'm still raising almost 200 ABNs that I can't trade very fast to my LFSs). And if more hobbyists buy these fish, and then their fish breed, then more of this species comes back into the hobby, increasing their availability and driving down their price further. All good. Perhaps the only downside to lower prices is that without proper counseling at the LFS, novice hobbyists who aren't prepared to take care of some of these fish will undoubtedly be more prone to purchasing them, with the risk that more fish die due to inadequate care. In the case of my LFS, I trust that owner to give buyers good advice, so I am comfortable trading with him.

Cheers, Eric

Again, this is off-topic of the OP, although it does connect back together indirectly. Sorry.