What species of Loricariidae have been breed in captivity successfully?

[FatherTime]

Hello Planet Catfish users,

Before I get to my question I feel I should provide a tiny bit of background. For the past year I have been breeding South American Cichlids and have been thoroughly enjoying the experience; however, when I originally planned to begin breeding fish I wanted to focus on Plecostomus. As I began to build my fish room I was fortunate enough to be involved with several fish rescues in my local community which resulted in many different species of Cichlid becoming part of my personal collection. As time went on I grew to love my Cichlids and have been breeding them since, but I also wanted to circle back to my original interest of breeding Plecostomus.

Now to the present… This last weekend I was fortunate enough to have an onsite visit to Segrest Farms near Tampa Florida, one of the nation’s largest international fish importer/exporter. While there I was surprised to discover exactly how many Plecostomus species have yet to be bred in captivity, so many in fact that it seemed more had not been breed in captivity than have been.

So this leads me to my question… I can’t seem to locate any list of Plecostomus species that have been confirmed to successfully breed in captivity, so I figured this would be a good place to start working on such a list.

I would be incredibly appreciative if anyone can point me to any existing lists of this nature, or provide me with first hand experiences you may have with successful breeding of a particular species.

Thank you in advance to anyone who may be able to shed light on this subject, your input is greatly appreciated.

Also, on a personal note… I am particularly interested in identifying a Plecostomus species that has a black body with white spots, such as a snowball, galaxy, starlight or white spotted Plecostomus that maintains its white spots throughout its life and can be captivity breed (I've heard none of the above have been successfully bred in captivity, is that true?); if anyone has any suggestions for a Plecostomus that fits that bill please let me know.

[bekateen]

Hi FatherTime,

Welcome to PlanetCatfish. While there is not be a complete database of all species ever spawned by anybody on earth, this website has a great database of all spawns reported to this website.

To access it, first click on the "Cat-eLog" tab across the top of this page, then click on the "All species bred" link. That will get you started.

This list includes all catfishes, not just Loricariids, but it's the best place to start.

Cheers, Eric

[Narwhal72]

In terms of species with white spots and black bodies, I think all the varieties you named have been spawned in captivity.

However, Most loricarids have small broods and take a long time to grow to market size. This makes them not really commercially viable for aquaculture. Which is why most you see in stores and through distributors like Segrest are wild caught. With few exceptions, (zebra plecos being the biggest one) it just doesn't make financial sense for a farm to work with them.

Andy

[FatherTime]

...This list includes all catfishes, not just Loricariids, but it's the best place to start...
Cheers, Eric

Fantastic, that is exactly what I was hoping for; thank you for making me aware of this forum feature.

And thank you for the Welcome to the community, I look forward to long future as a member of this wonderful forum.

[FatherTime]

In terms of species with white spots and black bodies, I think all the varieties you named have been spawned in captivity.

However, Most loricarids have small broods and take a long time to grow to market size. This makes them not really commercially viable for aquaculture. Which is why most you see in stores and through distributors like Segrest are wild caught. With few exceptions, (zebra plecos being the biggest one) it just doesn't make financial sense for a farm to work with them.

Andy

You raise a very interesting point, Narwhal72; I hadn't taken that aspect into consideration. Oddly enough as you mentioned my initial intention was to breed the zebra plecostomus as I was immediately taken by it's beauty, but once I became more aware of it's value and desirability I quickly realized that I should learn to walk before I run.

I decided to find a similar species analog to the zebra plecostomus to familiarize myself with their spawning habits and overall care, but as I stated before my initial plan was slightly derailed and I am only now revisiting the idea.

A bit of a jump of subject, but another plecostomus I had planned on breeding was the clown pleco, not so much for profitability but for my own personal usage (love having a janitorial staff on hand). In your personal opinion would this be a worth while venture, or would it be more cost efficient to simply buy myself a colony of clown plecos? I've had my LPS state that they would be highly interested in purchasing the clowns from me if I were successful at breeding them, but now you have me wondering exactly how long it would take me to bring fry to maturity.

You have my curiosity flowing, I am going to do a bit of reading to see if I can unearth any information on this matter, thank you for sharing your perspective with me, it truly gave me something to think about!

[bekateen]

...I quickly realized that I should learn to walk before I run.

I decided to find a similar species analog to the zebra plecostomus to familiarize myself with their spawning habits and overall care, but as I stated before my initial plan was slightly derailed and I am only now revisiting the idea.

FatherTime, that is the best approach to take - walk before you can run... and crawl before you can walk. Some of the easiest plecos to breed are the bristlenose (BN) plecos in the genus

Ancistrus

, like the common bristlenose

Ancistrus cf_cirrhosus

. These are practically dirt-cheap to buy, and they are very prolific. But they also allow you to learn about egg-rearing, fry feeding, etc. So I'd recommend you start there. You can end up with hundreds of BN fry if you're not careful, and it can be tough to sell them quickly, unless you have a few family-run LFS in your area (in my experience, big chain-stores don't accept trade-ins), or you have a fish club for trading. BNs reach sellable size within 5-6 months; you'll typically get about $2 trade-in value at LFS (at least in my area).

A bit of a jump of subject, but another plecostomus I had planned on breeding was the clown pleco, not so much for profitability but for my own personal usage (love having a janitorial staff on hand). In your personal opinion would this be a worth while venture, or would it be more cost efficient to simply buy myself a colony of clown plecos?

Clown plecos,

Panaqolus maccus

, are a step up in difficulty to get them started breeding, but they are also very easy to care for and the fry are pretty easy to raise. They are a species I breed, and I currently have dozens of fry growing up. Some LFS are eager to buy my babies and sell them, but other LFS are not - not because of me or their quality, but the LFS said that clowns just don't excite them as a product. I can sell juvenile clowns to a LFS for about $2-3 each, and I can sell them at my fish club auctions for about $4-5 each, which is slightly below retail value in my area ($7-9). But as Narwhal mentioned, they are not fast growing (about 6-8 months till sellable size), and you get fewer at a time than with BNs.

Cheers, Eric

[bekateen]

... but another plecostomus I had planned on breeding was the clown pleco, not so much for profitability but for my own personal usage (love having a janitorial staff on hand).

I forgot to add this:

Panaqolus

of ANY kind are NOT "janitorial staff." They are wood eaters and POOP MACHINES like you can't imagine! But boy are they fun to have!

Cheers, Eric

[FatherTime]

...snipped...
Cheers, Eric

First and foremost, thank you for taking the time to discuss this with me, your input is incredible valuable to me as I am a novice when it comes to Plecostomus breeding.

I’ve been told the same thing about bristlenose Plecostomus by my LPS owner (Rick Pruess of Pruess Pets in Lansing MI, a wonderfully knowledgeable gentleman with a love for the industry). Now I understand that the point of breeding the bristlenose is to gain firsthand experience with the conditioning, spawning, egg care, fry care, etc. However; I personally am not a fan of bristlenose Plecostomus aesthetically. Would you happen to have any other recommendations for a Plecostomus species that is a prolific breeder and a good species to break my teeth on? If not I am completely accepting of starting with the bristlenose, but it never hurts to ask. I’m sure you can guess, but I am not particularly fond of the tentacle like bristles.

Regarding the clown Plecostomus, I am fully able and willing to perform some of the more advanced activities associated with breeding some of the more “moderate” difficulty Plecostomus, such as frequent water changes and current control to simulate rainy seasons, it’s just a matter of identifying the particular needs of a species to perform the correct actions at the correct period of time. As you stated, my LPS isn’t offering a small fortune for clowns, but they sell them at 15$ each and they are by far the cheapest Plecostomus available at my LPS, so I believe they sell in high volume not due to their desirability, but because everyone believes that “a tank needs a pleco as a janitor” and these are the most moderately priced pleco in my area. If a clown Plecostomus can hit maturity in a 6-8 month window for me personally that is a completely acceptable time to spend growing out a Plecostomus.

I should note that I breed fish because I absolutely adore bringing new life into this world and enjoy the spawning behaviors of different species, I only sell my fish to make room for the new generations and am not truly focused on making a profit… My only concern is that I am able to sell last generation to make room for the next generation of fish, not to turn a dollar (I have a job for that )

[FatherTime]

... but another plecostomus I had planned on breeding was the clown pleco, not so much for profitability but for my own personal usage (love having a janitorial staff on hand).

I forgot to add this:

Panaqolus

of ANY kind are NOT "janitorial staff." They are wood eaters and POOP MACHINES like you can't imagine! But boy are they fun to have!

Cheers, Eric

Yes, they poop up a storm (especially my 14 inch sailfin pleco) and spend most of the day sucking on my drift wood, but I have also noticed that they do a number on brown algae that is growing in my soft water tanks; is this abnormal and a sign of malnutrition and I am oblivious to the fact, or is it normal for them to sustain off of a diet of both driftwood and algae?

I do agree that they only add to the poop waste in the tank and don't by any means remove all of the algae growth in the tank, but in my experience they have been keeping about a square foot worth of space around their dwelling free of algae growth, which reduced how often I have to manually scrub the algae from the aquarium.

EDIT: Would you have a recommendation of a plecostomus that is under 6" that would make a good algae janitor?

[bekateen]

I am by no means an expert on all the different plecos, but I can't think of any pleco easier to breed than the Ancistrus. Some people say Panaqolus is a close second, but I don't know about that. But to the rest of your point, I don't think that any of the other plecos that breed even modestly easily are "prolific" breeders. A single Ancistrus clutch can have 200-300 eggs (I speak from personal experience on this), and probably more as females age and get larger, and a single female common BN can breed as often as every 19 days in my experience. By contrast, my clowns produce around 30-50 eggs at a time. And I suspect that most of the other frequently bred plecos (if you go off the "All species bred" list, the most frequently reported spawns are either Ancistrus or

Hypancistrus

, so excluding the Ancistrus) tend to have smaller broods too. But you'd have to read those breeding reports to find out specifics.

To clarify, I did not say that the clown plecos reach maturity in 6-8 months, I said they reach sellable size. It will take them over a year, possibly two, to reach minimum size of maturity in my experience. While I never advocate selling babies at a size that is risking their health, a 1.5" - 2" clown pleco is big enough to sell. The LFS will need to adjust their retail price down slightly to reflect the smaller size, but the customers benefit by getting the plecos a little cheaper, and (presuming you keep a healthy tank) disease-free, so they don't have to worry about potentially parasite-infected wild-caught specimens.

Panaqolus really are primarily wood eaters. But like many plecos, they enjoy an occasional (opportunistic) meat meal too, and they freely take lots of different plant foods. They are not algae eaters per se, but they do scrape surfaces. And it is this scraping action that tends to keep algae in control.

Another benefit of them, which I just recently discovered, is that they can keep pond snails in control. It's not that they are snail-eaters, but since they scrape everything, they seem to either eat or destroy pond snail egg masses. I have a 20 gallon tank which had three mustard spot plecos (also a Panaqolus species) in it. There were a few stray pond snails in that tank. I moved the mustard spots to a new tank, and within weeks the 20 gal tank was overrun with pond snails. Now I'm purposefully adding back some baby clown plecos to try and get the pond snails back under control. I just added the clowns yesterday, so time will tell if this strategy is reliable, or if it was just a fluke with my other three plecos.

Cheers,
Eric

[bekateen]

If you're serious about breeding clown plecos, there are several reports available on this website. My own thread on my efforts is among the most recent, so by far not the first and not the best. But in my report I also include links to several other forum threads on the subject. You can read it here: Sexing Panaqolus maccus? Spawning at last!

Cheers,
Eric

[bekateen]

In my opinion, the best algae eater under 6" is the common BN, or any of several other BNs. There are several other loricariids that are also very good, like some of the

Otocinclus

, but I personally manage to kill all of the otos that I've bought. So I don't keep them anymore.

[Narwhal72]

I agree with Eric that Ancistrus are going to be your best bet to get an idea of what it takes to breed loricarids and they are fairly easy to sell.

Some Panaqolus are also fairly easy to breed. But I should point out that it is 1.5-2 years until they are mature. They are a sellable size in 6-8 months but are still not mature until double that age. P. maccus and P. vittata have proven fairly easy for me. But P. albivermis has been my nemesis for many years and I have never been successful with them. Brood size is again very small compared to Ancistrus.

A species that you may want to look at is Hypancistrus contradens. This has a spotted pattern on a dark body and is fairly easy to breed. It may be more along the lines of what your interests are. They are not herbivores and need to be fed a diet of meaty foods. Gel foods are great, as are algae wafers, frozen bloodworms, and live blackworms. If you have access to soft water (like RO filtered water) you will be more successful with Hypans. You could keep several individuals in a 20L with plenty of caves. I bred mine in a 10 gallon but I only kept a pair.

Andy

[FatherTime]

Thank you to everyone for the incredible feedback, I am truly appreciative of all of the insight being provided.

I don't think that any of the other plecos that breed even modestly easily are "prolific" breeders. A single Ancistrus clutch can have 200-300 eggs (I speak from personal experience on this), and probably more as females age and get larger, and a single female common BN can breed as often as every 19 days in my experience.

I shouldn't speak in hyperbole, I am not actually seeking out a plecostomus that breeds prolifically, in fact that would be somewhat of a nightmare for me... my Pink Convicts do enough of that for me to keep me content... I am more seeking out plecostomus that have a well understood breeding methodology that with proper implementation will result in successful spawning, and trying to avoid species that are a bit more "hit and miss". The quantity and frequency of spawning ins't as much as important to me as much as a well documented breeding regimen.

To clarify, I did not say that the clown plecos reach maturity in 6-8 months, I said they reach sellable size. It will take them over a year, possibly two, to reach minimum size of maturity in my experience.

My apologies once again, this is what I meant by "reaching maturity", which was a poor choice of words. I would not be interested in growing the plecostomus out to absolute maturity, but rather to a point at which they would be able to be sold to keepers/LPS without detriment to the fish. Any species that can reach "market size" within a year would be of interest to me.

That makes a great deal of sense about the scraping of the algae... it's so odd that most people refer to plecostomus as "the algae eaters" even though it seems that most species predominately eat wood.

If you're serious about breeding clown plecos, there are several reports available on this website. My own thread on my efforts is among the most recent, so by far not the first and not the best. But in my report I also include links to several other forum threads on the subject. You can read it here: Sexing Panaqolus maccus? Spawning at last!

Cheers,
Eric

Firstly, thank you for making these resources known to me, if I do go down the road of breeding clowns I will absolutely make sure to review these links. However, I am questioning whether these guys are actually ideal for my intended goal... at this point I've acquired them purely as a method of "sifting" my sand subtrate in several aquariums as they were the only moderate sized plecostomus available to me locally, but long term its sounding like I would be better off selecting another species.

I have two primary goals:
1) Identify a <= 6" utilitarian plecostomus species that is capable of being captively breed and reaches a market size within 1 year. This species should have dietary interest in plant matter (algae, dead plant material) as well as other diet needs (wood/meaty products). The appearance of this species is of little concern to me (although if we can find one that inst a bristlenose that would be most ideal for me personally).
2) Identify a <= 1' ornate plecostomus species with a black body and white spots that maintains its spotted appearance throughout its life. This species needs to be able to be bred in captivity, but whether or not it is easily bred is not of concern (I am willing to jump threw hoops). The duration of time it takes to bring this pleco to "market size" is of no concern to me, I will spend multiple years if necessary.

A species that you may want to look at is Hypancistrus contradens.
Andy

I am really glad that you mentioned this species, oddly enough it is one that has been on my radar lately. It matches a great deal of what I am looking for in the second scenario. It has the correct patterning, coloring, and size that I desire; my only question was whether it can be bred or not... I noticed that on the planet catfish page for that species breeding is "unreported" and that the species does not appear on the "successfully bred" list, so I began to dismiss it as "unknown breeding behaviors". Is that correct, or is anyone aware of this species being captively breed?

Again, thank you all for your fantastic input, I greatly appreciate your time and expertise!

Oh and p.s. Someone had asked if I had access to soft water/RO; Yes, I have a 100 gallon per day RO system for my fishroom, so I would be able to provide any necessary soft water.

[Narwhal72]

H. contradens is widely bred by hobbyists. I have done it myself a couple of years ago. It's not difficult. Just not reported I guess. There is a picture of fry from a breeding on the species page.

Another species that is very similar is L201. They are very similar to H. contradens and may even be eventually recognized as the same species. They are very difficult to tell apart from each other unless they are side by side.

It should be pointed out that most loricarids do not eat wood as a primary diet. That is something that is just common with Panaque and Panaqolus. Most Hypancistrus are omnivores and lean more towards carnivore in their diet.

Andy

[TwoTankAmin]

@FatherTime

I don't know if you are aware of this, but you live just over an hour away from one of the best stores there is for plecos. You should look into a trip to Fantastic Fins, 38131 Ann Arbor Rd, Livonia, MI 48150 (734) 464-3523. Visit their website here http://www.fantasticfinsfish.com/Home_Page.html

Dale Ernst, on of the co-owners, is a highly accomplished pleco breeder and well known in the catfish community. He pretty much spawns all the Hypancistrus, as well as other plecos. The store sells may of his offspring. I have some of his fish can attest to the quality.

[FatherTime]

H. contradens is widely bred by hobbyists. I have done it myself a couple of years ago. It's not difficult. Just not reported I guess. There is a picture of fry from a breeding on the species page.

Another species that is very similar is L201. They are very similar to H. contradens and may even be eventually recognized as the same species. They are very difficult to tell apart from each other unless they are side by side.

It should be pointed out that most loricarids do not eat wood as a primary diet. That is something that is just common with Panaque and Panaqolus. Most Hypancistrus are omnivores and lean more towards carnivore in their diet.

Andy

Ah, that is wonderful to hear, thank you for confirming first hand success with spawning contradens; At this point I think they are a strong front runner and definitely worth a closer look at the species.

Also, thank you for sharing what species in similar in nature, I will make sure to read up on the L201 as well.

@FatherTime

I don't know if you are aware of this, but you live just over an hour away from one of the best stores there is for plecos. You should look into a trip to Fantastic Fins, 38131 Ann Arbor Rd, Livonia, MI 48150 (734) 464-3523. Visit their website here <a class="vglnk" href="http://www.fantasticfinsfish.com/Home_Page.html" rel="nofollow"><span>http</span><span>://</span><span>www</span><span>.</span><span>fantasticfinsfish</span><span>.</span><span>com</span><span>/</span><span>Home</span><span>_</span><span>Page</span><span>.</span><span>html</span></a>

Dale Ernst, on of the co-owners, is a highly accomplished pleco breeder and well known in the catfish community. He pretty much spawns all the Hypancistrus, as well as other plecos. The store sells may of his offspring. I have some of his fish can attest to the quality.

Actually no, I had no idea, thank you very much for bringing this to my attention; I can guarantee you that I will take advantage of such a great resource and make a trip their way at some point in the near future.

Edit: Ugh, if only I new this yesterday... I was down in Detroit airport flying back from Fort Myers Florida and drove right past their location on my way home!

I am loving this community already, only a day in and i've been inundated with awesome advice and suggestions; thank you everyone!

[stuby]

@FatherTime

I don't know if you are aware of this, but you live just over an hour away from one of the best stores there is for plecos. You should look into a trip to Fantastic Fins, 38131 Ann Arbor Rd, Livonia, MI 48150 (734) 464-3523. Visit their website here http://www.fantasticfinsfish.com/Home_Page.html

Dale Ernst, on of the co-owners, is a highly accomplished pleco breeder and well known in the catfish community. He pretty much spawns all the Hypancistrus, as well as other plecos. The store sells may of his offspring. I have some of his fish can attest to the quality.

Don't forget Dale isn't the only pleco breeder close to him Chris.....

[stuby]

If a clown Plecostomus can hit maturity in a 6-8 month window for me personally that is a completely acceptable time to spend growing out a Plecostomus.

It takes them 6 to 8 months to hit a sellable size (at least 1" to 1.5" or so)........ to hit breeding size it takes years. They are a slower growing pleco but is worth breeding regardless of how long it takes and how much you get for them in my opinion anyways.

HTH
Chuck

[FatherTime]

Good morning everyone,

So I am attempting to familiarize myself with the two recommended Plecostomus species:

• Hypancistrus contradens
  L201

Unfortunately I am having a bit of a hard time… I will be placing an order in the near future with Segrest farms for several species of apistogramma and wanted to see if Segrest carries/carried these species as well. Here is where the confusion comes in…

When I search Segrests catalog for the name “contradens” nothing appear; however, when I search for L201 I do find a species that they refer to as “Polka Dot Pleco L201”. Because their site attaches an L number to each Plecostomus species I decided to visit the planet catfish catalog for the Hypancistrus contradens:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/spe ... ies_id=677
However, I do not see an L number for that species. On the planet catfish they refer to “Hypancistrus contradens” as “Orinoco Polka-dot Pleco” which leads me to believe that while planet catfish is referring to Hypancistrus contradens and L201 as two separate species that Segrest farms is mistaking them for one in the same (as I’ve been previously warned in this thread).

When reading the description of Hypancistrus contradens I see this statement:
“Most easily confused with L201 which is flatter, more finely spotted and is more slender and less high bodied than Hypancistrus contradens which also grows about 2cm longer.”

I would prefer more prominent spots, and a more robust body that isn’t flat; so it definitely sounds like I would prefer the Hypancistrus contradens over the L201…

So I guess my underlined question is… does Hypancistrus contradens have an L number? And does the 201 have a species or trade name?

[bekateen]

Hi FatherTime,

L-numbers were invented by the tropical fish hobby industry as a way to reference fish which have not yet been given a scientific name and complete description. So some fish have only an L-number, other fish have only a scientific name (if a fish already has a scientific name, there is no reason to give it an L-number), and some fish have both - either they were discovered in the pet trade first, and later a scientist described them and gave a name, or a name already existed, but somebody thought these fish did not belong to the pre-recognized species (when in fact they did), and the error was corrected later.

If a species has a scientific name (like Hypancistrus contradens) AND an L-number, then the L-number will be listed in the "common name" section of the species Cat-eLog entry (CLOG page). If no L-number appears, it doesn't have one.

Cheers, Eric

[Dave Rinaldo]

Neither Hypancistrus contradens or L201 are on Segrest list this week. Does your LFS order from them?

Dale at Fantastic Fins will be a better source,

[stuby]

If your hart is set on Hypancistrus Contraden and you can't get them in you LPS there are people that breed them on PC as well...... take a look at buy/sell forum and I am sure you will be able to find someone if Dale doesn't have them.

Chuck

[TwoTankAmin]

@FatherTime

I actually have a group of Contradens I am looking to sell. however, I should provide information about them.

They are a mix of 11wild caughts I got from Jeff Rapp 7-8 years ago. They spawned for me a few times. However, over time I lost a some of them and I replaced the lost ones with offspring. My interests re spawning moved to other species and I stopped actively working with them. Now I need their tank for other species and I want to sell them.

I cannot guarantee they will spawn for somebody else. I have no idea of the sexes except that I am sure I have both. I have about 7 or 8 fish and they range from sub adult to adult. If you are interested I have what I call the best guarantee you will find for the fish I ship to folks. (Shameless plug.)

@stuby
Sorry Chuck it slipped my mind. Its been a while since pleco chat was active. FT, you can rest assured you will get quality fish from stuby.

[stuby]

@stuby
Sorry Chuck it slipped my mind. Its been a while since pleco chat was active. FT, you can rest assured you will get quality fish from stuby.

No worries and thank you. I was thinking of you with the Contradens.... but I wasn't sure if you decided to sell them for sure or if you still had them.

@FatherTime
You have a lot of options besides your LPS.... not saying anything is wrong with that but you have other options that you can pick from too. If you don't want to wait and grow up a group of plecs TwoTankAmin's (Chris) group is the way to go if you ask me and he is a good guy that knows his fish!

Chuck

[Jools]

No, and most retailers tend to sell them mixed up. L201 is numerically rarer in imports.

Jools

[TwoTankAmin]

Just a quick follow-up.

FatherTime should have taken me up on my offer. Following the advice I got from Dale and Ingo at CatCon last October, I went back to basics by revising the diet I was feeding. One of the results is the contradens have started to spawn again and I have fry.

For the curious, I began feeding Repashy foods:
1. Spawn and Grow.
2. Fruut-Luups (Stephan Tanner's custom formulation).
3. A mix of 3 or 4 to 1 of Meat Pie and Soilent Green.

[bekateen]

Just a quick follow-up.

FatherTime should have taken me up on my offer. Following the advice I got from Dale and Ingo at CatCon last October, I went back to basics by revising the diet I was feeding. One of the results is the contradens have started to spawn again and I have fry.

For the curious, I began feeding Repashy foods:
1. Spawn and Grow.
2. Fruut-Luups (Stephan Tanner's custom formulation).
3. A mix of 3 or 4 to 1 of Meat Pie and Soilent Green.

Thanks for the info TTA. I've been waiting for my L201 big spots to start breeding, to no avail. I'll try mixing up the diet and see if that helps. Wish me luck, I'm goin' in!

Cheers, Eric

[TwoTankAmin]

@beekateen

One note Eric- I only feed the fish I am trying to induce to spawn and those I am growing out on the Spawn and Grow. I omit this food for all the rest. I also do not feed it exclusively for any length of time. In fact I still use other foods, especially frozen.

[bekateen]

okay thanks.