Lineages

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Lineages

Post by jp11biod »

Can someone point me to a document that explains, in not too technical a way, on the lineages now being used to differentiate between all the different species of Corydoras? Do we need to only worry about cross-breeding among fish within the same lineages?? Thanks

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Re: Lineages

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Re: Lineages

Post by bekateen »

jp11biod wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:36 pm
Do we need to only worry about cross-breeding among fish within the same lineages?? Thanks
Although I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a hybridization event between two species of different lineages, the probability goes way down. I think most cory keepers who keep lots of cory species regard a mixture of any two lineage safe (e.g., 8 and 9, or 4 and 7, etc.).

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Re: Lineages

Post by Jools »

Hi All,

Just moved this topic into the Corys section as it seems to be a bit more about corys / hybridisation now than it is about taxonomy etc.

Jools

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Re: Lineages

Post by Jools »

@Coryman sent me the following summary information which I am free to post here.

Corydoradinae lineages.
This is a complete breakdown of Corydoradinae lineages. After the lineage number I have added the appropriate genera i.e. Lineage1: Corydoras. Where the genus name is in brackets there are genera that
were previously published but were subsequently placed in synonymy with Corydoras. These may well be resurrected in the future.

Lineage 1: Corydoras
C. acutus C. amapaensis C. approuaguensis
C. areio C. aurofrenatus C. blochi
C. cervinus C. coriatae C. desana
C. fowleri C. geoffroy C. heteromorphus
C. maculifer C. narcissus C, negro
C. orcesi C. ourastigma C. oxyrhynchus
C. pastazensis C. saramaccensis C. sarareensis
C. semiaquilus C. septentrionalis C. serratus
C. simulatus C. solox C. spilurus
C. senocephalus C. treitlii C. vittatus
C. zawadzkii
C. sp C008 C. sp C016 C. sp C024
C. sp C028 C. sp C029 C. sp C038
C. sp C042 C. sp C047 C. sp C051
C. sp C053 C. sp C061 C. sp C063
C. sp C077 C. sp C078 C. sp C086
C. sp C092 C. sp C094 C. sp C095
C. sp C099 C. sp C109 C. sp C115
C. sp C116 C. sp C124 C. sp C127
C. sp C145 C. sp C149 C. sp C153
C. sp C155 C. sp CW012 C. sp CW017
C. sp CW053 C. sp CW055 C. sp CW059
C. sp CW066 C. sp CW073 C. sp CW075
C. sp CW080 C. sp CW083 C. sp CW116
C. sp CW118 C. sp CW120 C. sp CW121 (C. amapaensis)
C. sp CW124 C. sp CW128 C. sp CW149
C. sp CW156
77
Lineage 2: Aspidoras
A. albater
(A. taurus, A. eurycephalus, C035) A. belenos A. brunneus
A. carvalhoi A. depinnai A. fuscoguttatus
(C036 - C118, C119)
A. gabrieli A. kiriri A. lakoi
A. maculosus A. memphisto A. poecilus
(A. marianae, A. microgalaeus, C037 - C158)
A. psammatides A. raimundi
(A. spilotus, A. menezesi, C125, CW119) A. rochai
A. velites
C. sp CW52 hybrid ? C. sp CW126 C. sp CW141
19
Lineage 3 Scleromystax
S. barbatus S. kronei S. lacerdai
S. macropterus S. prionotos S. reisi
S. salmacis S. virgulatus
S. sp C112 S. sp C113 S. sp CW038
S. sp CW042 S. sp CW067 S. sp CW092
S. sp CW147 S. sp CW148
15
Lineage 4: (Microcorydoras)
C. guapore C. hastatus C. mamore
C. paucerna C. pygmaeus 5
5
Lineage5: (Gastrodermus)
C. bilineatus C. elegans C. gracilis
C. latus C. nanus C. napoensis
C. nijsseni C. pauciradiatus C. undulates
C. sp C041 C. sp C088 C. sp C089
C. sp C093 C. sp C123 C. sp C126
C. sp C132 C. sp CW008 C. sp CW018
C. sp CW019 C. sp CW022 C. sp CW029
C. sp CW033 C. sp CW044 C. sp CW048
C. sp CW056 C. sp CW064 C. sp CW085
C. sp CW087 C. sp CW095 C. sp CW096
C. sp CW100 C. sp CW105 C. sp CW110
C. sp CW123 C. sp CW131 C. sp CW144
36
Lineage 6: (No previous genera).
C. albolineatus C. benattii C. carlae
C. cochui C. dyphyes C. ehrhardti
C. flaveolus C. froehlichi C. gryphus
C. longipinnis C. micracanthus C. nattereri
C. ortegai C. paleatus C. potaroensis
C. reynoldsi C. steindachneri C. tukano
C. sp C114
19
Lineage 7: (Osteogaster).
C. aeneus C. eques C. macrosteus
C. melanotaenia C. rabauti C. schultzei
C. venezuelanus C. zygatus
C. sp CW007 C. sp CW009 C. sp CW010
C. sp CW014 C. sp CW016 C. sp CW023
C. sp CW026 C. sp CW041 C. sp CW068
C. sp CW078 C. sp CW084 C. sp CW093
C. sp CW097 C. sp CW139
22
Lineage 8: Sub clade 1 (Brochis)
B. britskii B. multiradiatus B. splendens
B. *****
B. sp CW034 B. sp CW132 B. sp CW136
7
Lineage 8: Sub clade 2 (No genus)
C. difluviatalis C. garbei C. Hephaestus
C. sp C057 C. sp C067
Lineage 8: Sub clade 3 (No genus)
C. geryi C. pantanalensis C. reticulatus
C. sodalis
C. sp C081 C. sp CW061
Lineage 8: Sub clade 4 (No genus)
C. agassizii C. amandajanea C. ambiacus
C. arcuatus C. bifaciatus C. brittoi
C. condisciplus C. crimmeni C. crypticus
C. delpfax C. ephippifer C. gomezi
C. haraldschultzi C. imitator C. incolicana
C. isbrueckeri C. lamberti C. leopardus
C. noelkempffi C. ornatus C. orphnopterus
C. pavanelliae C. pinheiroi C. pulcher
C. robineae C. robustus C. seussei
C. spectabilis C. sychri C.virginiae
C. sp C009 C. sp C010 C. sp C013
C. sp C018 C. sp C034 C. sp C039
C. sp C049 C. sp C052 C. sp C066
C. sp C068 C. sp C071 C. sp C074
C. sp C075 C. sp C080 C. sp C081
C. sp C087 C. sp C097 C. sp C098
C. sp C101 C. sp C102 C. sp C103
C. sp C110 C. sp C117 C. sp C122
C. sp C128 C. sp C130 C. sp C131
C. sp C135 C. sp C138 C. sp C140
C. sp C141 C. sp C143 C. sp C152
C. sp C156 C. sp C157 C. sp C159
C. sp CW002 C. sp CW006 C. sp CW013
C. sp CW020 C. sp CW040 C. sp CW054
C. sp CW057 C. sp CW058 C. sp CW065
C. sp CW070 C. sp CW072 C. sp CW074
C. sp CW082 C. sp CW089 C. sp CW090
C. sp CW099 C. sp CW101 C. sp CW106
C. sp CW113 C. sp CW117 C. sp CW130
C. sp CW134 C. sp CW135 C. sp CW138
C. sp CW143 C. sp CW150 C. sp CW151
C. sp CW155 C. sp CW157 C. sp CW160
C. sp CW161 97

4
6
Lineage 9 (Hoplisoma)
C. acrensis C. adolfoi C. amphibelus
C. apiaka C. araguaiaensis C. armatus
C. atropersonatus C. axelrodi C. baderi
C. benattii C. bertoni C. bicolor
C. boehlkei C. boesemani C. bondi
C. breei C. brevirostris C. burgessi
C. caudimaculatus C. concolor C. copei
C. coppenamensis C. cruziensis C. davidsandsi
C. duplicareus C. evelynea C. eversi
C. gladysae C. gossei C. granti
C. griseus C. guianensis C. habrosus
C. julii C. kanei C. knaacki
C. lacrimostigmata C. leucomelas C. loretoensis
C. loxozonas C. lymnades C. melanistius
C. melini C. metae C. multimaculatus
C. oiapoquensis C. osteocarus C. panda
C. paragua C. parallelus C. petracinii
C. polystictus C. punctatus C. sanchesi
C. schwartzi C. similis C. sipaliwini
C. sterbai C. surinamensis C. trilineatus
C. urucu C. weitzmani C. xinguensis
C. sp C003 C. sp C006 C. sp C14
C. sp C019 C. sp C021 C. sp C026
C. sp C030 C. sp C033 C. sp C040
C. sp C043 C. sp C044 C. sp C045
C. sp C048 C. sp C054 C. sp C062
C. sp C072 C. sp C073 C. sp C076
C. sp C079 C. sp C081 C. sp C084
C. sp C085 C. sp C090 C. sp C091
C. sp C096 C. sp C100 C. sp C120
C. sp C121 C. sp C129 C. sp C133
C. sp C134 C. sp C136 C. sp C137
C. sp C139 C. sp C142 C. sp C144
C sp C147 C. sp C148 C. sp C150
C. sp C151 C. sp C152 C. sp C154
C. sp CW001 C. sp CW004 C. sp CW015
C. sp CW021 C. sp CW027 C. sp CW028
C. sp CW030 C. sp CW037 C. sp CW039
C. sp CW045 C. sp CW046 C. sp CW047
C. sp CW049 C. sp CW050 C. sp CW051
C. sp CW060 C. sp CW062 C. sp CW063
C. sp CW069 C. sp CW071 C. sp CW076
C. sp CW077 C. sp CW079 C. sp CW081
C. sp CW086 C. sp CW088 C. sp CW091
C. sp CW094 C. sp CW098 C. sp CW102
C. sp CW103 C. sp CW104 C. sp CW107
C. sp CW108 C. sp CW109 C. sp CW111
C. sp CW112 C. sp CW115 C. sp CW122
C. sp CW125 C. sp CW127 C. sp CW129
C. sp CW133 C. sp CW137 C. sp CW140
C. sp CW142 C. sp CW145 C. sp CW146
C. sp CW152 C. sp CW153 C. sp CW154
C. sp CW158 C. sp CW159 C. sp CW162
162 465 species

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Re: Lineages

Post by Jools »

Maybe also worth noting they are accessible in these groups via:

Lineage 1 Corydoras(ln1)
Lineage 2 Aspidoras
Lineage 3 Scleromystax
Lineage 4 Corydoras(ln4) (Microcorydoras)
Lineage 5 Corydoras(ln5) (Gastrodermus)
Lineage 6 Corydoras(ln6) (n. g.)
Lineage 7 Corydoras(ln7) (Osteogaster)
Lineage 8 Sub clade 1 Brochis
Lineage 8 Sub clade 2 Corydoras(ln8sc2)
Lineage 8 Sub clade 3 Corydoras(ln8sc3)
Lineage 8 Sub clade 4 Corydoras(ln8sc4)
Lineage 9 Corydoras(ln9) (Hoplisoma)

I'll go through the species list and check if we've got anything out-of-kilter.

Jools

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Re: Lineages

Post by bekateen »

Thanks Jools.

FWIW, a similar and continuously updating version of this list (showing newly add CW numbers and newly described species) can be found on the Corydoradinae subfamily page, here.

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Re: Lineages

Post by Jools »

Indeed, I think there are some changes to make for example, C121 is considered C. amapaensis - fixing that would be a matter of moving and keepers/breeders of C121 and the common name to C. amapaensis and then also renaming the C121 species entry to something else...

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Re: Lineages

Post by bekateen »

Correction: CW121, not C121 is C. amapaensis.

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Re: Lineages

Post by Jools »

Yes, sorry, didn’t take enough time to double check. Anyway, there is merit I think in just harmonising all the data (or not, if reason exists) but as I’ve just rather inadvertently demonstrated, it needs to be done careful, like.

:-)

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Re: Lineages

Post by Jools »

Given the interest in this subfamily and increasingly in subfamilies more broadly, I’ve redesigned the page to work better on mobiles (now over 50% of our traffic).

Not quite finished yet, so some data will be incomplete, will post again here when done.

Cheers

Jools

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Re: Lineages

Post by jp11biod »

Thanks everyone-- this is very helpful

JS

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Re: Lineages

Post by Jools »

Also, C082 and C083 isn't in the list above. While I've previously lumped C079 and these two into Corydoras loxozonus, I now am not sure at all. C082 doesn't even look like lineage 9.

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Re: Lineages

Post by bekateen »

Jools wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:45 pm
Also, C082 and C083 isn't in the list above. While I've previously lumped C079 and these two into Corydoras loxozonus, I now am not sure at all. C082 doesn't even look like lineage 9.
Yes, It's my understanding that all of these C numbers (C079, C082 and C083) are considered variants of Corydoras loxozonus.

In my mind, C079 is a much farther stretch than either C082 or C083. Not much help I suppose in any confirmational effort, but that's their status as I know it.

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Re: Lineages

Post by Jools »

Worth considering the original DATZ images too.

https://www.datz.de/images/stories/arti ... 001-12.pdf
https://www.datz.de/images/stories/arti ... 2002-8.pdf
https://www.datz.de/images/stories/arti ... 2002-8.pdf

It seems to me that, way back then (2001/2002) they didn't have the knowledge we have now. If they indeed show males and females with different colour types, wouldn't that the only examples of this outside of lineage 5? I'd guess these need another look and I can't think they are all C. loxozonus.


Jools

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