Unkillable fungus?

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 27 Feb 2004, 16:21

I'm asking this question for a friend of mine. A couple months ago she had a 10 gallon tank that she had a peppered cory, a small common pleco, some sort of small frog, and maybe five or six mollies and two platys (I think they are called?). Her water started getting really cloudy and smelly (I'm fairly certain she was overfeeding the fish + the tank was kind of by a window), so she started doing more water changes. The water consistently stayed cloudy, so one day she did a huge water change, maybe about 80-90%. While she was changing the water she said she noticed a bunch of flaky stuff.

She had bought an otocinclus a couple weeks earlier and he had disappeared, so we both figured maybe somehow he had died and broken down into mush or these flaky things. She had borrowed my gravel vaccum and said she was sucking up a ton of this stuff, but she finished the water change and put the fish back in. Within a week she had lost her pleco, then one of her mollies, then one day she can home and her entire tank of fish was dead. This really bummed her out, so she put her tank into storage.

Now she's using it again to house a couple small fish for a friend of ours and there is this weird, white fungus completely covering the inside of the tank. She said she's using fungus remover medication in the tank now, but this stuff still grows fast and thick. I went to her house to see it and I've never seen anything like it, and the fact that she has medication in there and it's still growing is really weird. So does anyone know what she could try that might help her get rid of this fungus? I feel so bad for her, since all of her first fish died and now she doesn't want to kill her other friend's fish. Is there some fungus that can live through several months in storage and then start up again? Thanks for any help!

Post by **Barbie** » 27 Feb 2004, 17:49

You might ask her how much she is feeding. Medications are for treating fungus on FISH, not in the general tank. Increased frequency of water changes (never 80% in a small tank, more like 30% a couple times a day if necessary), reduced feedings, to every third day with just as much as they eat in 30 seconds or so would be what I had tried. People really believe they are being good to the fish by feeding too much and have trouble with the concept of killing them with kindness. Test her water for ammoina, nitrite, and nitrate levels and it will help us have a better idea of how to help, also.

Barbie

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 27 Feb 2004, 18:26

Okay, I'll do let her know. I'm not sure how much she's feeding this fish, but if it's anything like she was feeding her other ones...*shudder* I've tried telling her not to feed them so much but she says whenever she feeds them they always eat all of the food but I think she was feeding her first fish maybe three times a day? To me, that sounds like a lot. Especially because she had special food for the mollies/platys, frog, and catfish. Three types of food was probably three times the amount everyone needed.

I wish she would have told me before she did the huge water changes, etc. She called and told me she did a huge water change and she hoped it would help her fish. Then when she called and told me they all died I felt really bad, but I wasn't really surprised. I'll go to her house today and test her water. I'm not sure what kinds fish she's fish-sitting, but I'll ask her to show me how much she's feeding them and how often. And I'll let her know the fish medication won't work for the water. Hopefully this goes away with the water changes. She said the fish don't have the fungus on them, only the tank and decorations. Will this affect the fish when she returns the fish to the owner?

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 28 Feb 2004, 14:15

Sorry to hear about your friends fishes.

The Oto that died probably was eaten up, more likely from the pl*co.

Fungus on decor is usually a sign of not enough water movement in those areas. Also overfeeding. The cloudy water is normally due to bacterial bloom, from a high concentrate of ammonia. The heavy feedings probably caused this and the large water change didn't help it much either.

What kind of filter is she using? Maybe it's too small for the tank. Another thing too is that her tank is overstocked. This will increase the amount of ammonia in the tank.

She had borrowed my gravel vaccum and said she was sucking up a ton of this stuff, but she finished the water change and put the fish back in.

I think this might have killed the fish also. Removing it from the tank and placing it back in probably stressed it out. I'm not sure how much water she removed, I'm assuming alot, that after the fish were brought back into the tank with the new water, didn't help the fish out much either.

michelle56 · Post by **michelle56** » 28 Feb 2004, 14:33

I'm sorry.

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 28 Feb 2004, 19:51

Wow, I didn't realize a pleco would eat an oto, but I suppose if it was there he'd eat a dead one. I wouldn't think he'd be hungry with the amount of food she was feeding the fish, but who knows.

The tank she's using is a 10 gallon from WalMart. The filter is a Marineland mini. (We have the same set-ups...WalMart has cheap tanks! I bought the bio-wheel extra doo-dads to give mine that bio filtration, too, so I'm sure she was throwing away what good bacteria she had with every water change.)

What is weird is that this fungus is covering everything in the tank. Even right in front of where the water comes out of the filter. There are some fake plants there with the gunk on them and the current just shakes the plant around and it still sticks. It's not as bad now that it used to be. It looks like there might be less fungus. I'll tell her to do many small water changes.

Her water perimeters are pH 6.4, ammonia 1, nitrite 0, nitrate 0. The fish that are in there now are a couple mollies. My friend said she's not feeding these fish anything like her other fishes. She showed me how much she was feeding them and it was the littlest pinch of food and she feeds them twice a day.

Does it sound like she's doing the right thing to make the fungus go away? She's really worried that when her other friend wants her fish back they'll have fungus. The tank does look better, though. Thanks for the help!

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 29 Feb 2004, 05:09

I'm sure the fish will be ok, it's just the tank that has the fungus.

Everything is adding up tho. The small filter and the overstocked tank lead to an increased amount of ammonia. The biowheel helped you out, since it helped build up the benificial bacteria in your tank. Unfortunately, she just had small filter, which was way underpowered. The biowheel helps for biological filtration, but it's still rather small for mechanical/chemical filtration. The hang on tank filters do not support enough media for the tank, therefore, it's best that you get a larger filter for your and her tank. If you plan to stay with the same tanks, then may I suggest the Marineland Emperor 280 or something similar. Basically, a filter that is 1 1/2 times than your current tank size. I currently use an Emperor 280 filter on my 10 gallon along with a powerhead with a pre-filter sponge for additional biological filtration and water movement.

Post by **Barbie** » 29 Feb 2004, 05:35

I disagree on this one. Turning the tank volume over 10 times per hour should be more than sufficient filtration, IME. The water is only capable of holding so much oxygen to support a limited number of bacteria and still keep the fish healthy and happy. I do overfilter my tanks, but its not a prerequisite to having healthy fish with proper maintenance and stocking levels, no?

The fact that this tank is showing ammonia levels and no nitrates, is a good sign that she's killed the biobed in doing the large water changes. BioSpira, or a supplement of filter media from one of your established tanks would definitely be in order, along with small volume daily water changes to reduce the ammonia levels.

Take anything growing that fungus out of the tank, scrub it, and put it back. Siphon all of it out that you can. It can't hurt, and it might do the fish quite a bit of good.

Barbie

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 29 Feb 2004, 05:39

Okay, I'll let her know about her needing a bigger filter when she sets her tank up again. I think she's planning on doing it sometime in a couple of weeks, so hopefully she spends the time to do a little research. She says she doesn't want to jump back into it, so hopefully she learns some good info! I saw the tank tonight and there is almost no fungus on anything in the tank now. She said she did a couple small water changes. I'm amazed at how much cleaner the tank looks. The fish look like they are doing great. They're zooming around the tank and look like they're having a great time.

I'll keep your tip in mind about having the filter 1.5x bigger than the tank. Hopefully my Eheim can really handle the 55 gallon then.

I'll only be using one of my 10 gallon tanks as a quarantine tank when my bigger tank is set up, so since no fish will ever be in the 10 gallon for too long I'm going to stick with just using one of the mini filters for that.

I just did a water change on the tank next to my computer and my fish look great! I am so incredibly excited about setting my new tank up!! I won't be able to watch the fish while I'm at the computer because the new tank is being set up behind me, but I suppose I'll be okay.

I think my Schwartziis like to watch me type. They prefer to sit in the corner where I can see them. They are such goofballs.

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 29 Feb 2004, 06:18

Turning the tank volume over 10 times per hour should be more than sufficient filtration, IME.

True, on a tank that is not overstocked. She also had the pl*co that produces alot of waste, therefore, creating more ammonia in the tank.

The water is only capable of holding so much oxygen to support a limited number of bacteria and still keep the fish healthy and happy.

True also, but the oxygen is probably being used up more than what is being produced being in overstocked tank. With a small filter, there was probably very little water movement, which didn't oxygenate the water as much. Very little water movement and with high ammonia content, casued the fungus growth.

I do overfilter my tanks, but its not a prerequisite to having healthy fish with proper maintenance and stocking levels, no?

Yes, it is not a prerequisite to overfilter, but it helps alot. In fact, one can even get away with NO filter. Of course, daily (maybe even every 6-8 hours) gravel cleaning & water changes (about 5%-10%) has to be done, but who wants to do that. That's why we have filters. Overfiltering helps, especially since most of us overstock our tanks. Plus it requires less filter maintenance, a small filter may require maintenance of every 2-3 weeks, a larger filter may require maintenance 4-6 weeks, depending on your stock.

COOL! Someone who knows her stuff too.

Fiskars the Whiskers - Which Eheim filter did you get? I currently use an Eheim 2128 (rated for 150 gallon tank) on my 55 gallon. I know it's really overfiltered, but I plan to get a 135 gallon tank in the future and I'm going to move the 2128 to it. I'll also be adding a wet/dry filter to it.

BTW, I thought she lost all her fish, but your last message stated her fish are looking great. Did she get more fish? What does she have?

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 29 Feb 2004, 07:12

*L* Okay, here is the scoop:

My friend LuWanda had the 10 gallon of fish when I first met her back in August. This is when she had the pleco, lost the oto, had the mollies, platys, etc. She lost her fish probably in September sometime. She put her tank into storage because she was so sad about the loss of all of her fish that she didn't want to start over again for awhile. Now she has a friend that is out of town for a long time and she told the friend that she would watch the fish for her and since she has a tank she can do it right in her apartment.

However, she got the tank out of storage and put her friend's fish in there. Within about a week everything was covered with fungus. She put fungus remover in there but then nothing happened. She started doing small water changes and now the fungus is either gone or close to gone (when I went to her house to measure her water perimeters there was not EVEN as much fungus in the tank as there had been, it looked like almost no fungus left). The fish she is fish-sitting are mollies. I'm betting she has the ammonia of 1 because the tank wasn't cycled. She'd just filled it up with water and put the fish in.

And that is the full story of the tank. *L* Hopefully less confusion in hearing the whole story all at once.

Crazie.Eddie, I was recommended the Eheim 2215 by several people for my tank. In looking at the box it says it's good for 66-93 US gallons. Sound okay?

Man, thanks for all of the help everyone, I really appreciate it. It's good for my friend and I to both know why stuff is going on. I told her I would ask on here about the fungus and she was really grateful, so it's nice to have an answer after wondering several questions for the past couple of months, such as "What happened to that oto anyway?" and "What is that stuff growing in the tank?!"

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 29 Feb 2004, 07:40

Ahh. The story unfolds

Yes, the filter you have should be sufficient. I recently purchased my Eheim Pro 2128 after everyone praising over the Eheim. Now I know why. I, especially, like the integrated heater on the 2126/2128 models. I wish I had the extra $$$ to get the 2126 for another future tank.

She'd just filled it up with water and put the fish in.

CYCLE! CYCLE! CYCLE!

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 29 Feb 2004, 07:53

That's what I told her!!! She tells me about these things after she's already done them, like an afterthought! It was, "Oh, today I did a big water change."
Me: "Oh, yeah? That's neat, how big?"
Lu: "Oh, almost all of the water."
Me: "What do you mean 'almost all of the water'?" *gulp*
Lu: "I dunno, like maybe 80...no, 90%?"

And then all of her fish died. *sigh* I've told her that if she ever has any questions, ask me and if I don't know the answer I'll ask on here for her!

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 29 Feb 2004, 08:32

Sorry, I didn't mean to rag on you. It's just I'm a moderator at a freshwater forum on another aquarium site and I answer TONS of questions regarding cycling (and stocking too)