New tank questions II

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 18 Feb 2004, 20:13

Alrighty, so my Eheim 2215 canister filter came in the mail yesterday and my dad has finished building my stand, so soon I'm going to set my 53 gallon tank up. The measurements are 36.5"x16.5"x20.5". I'm planning on using the Eheim filter and two Marineland Bio-Wheel minis (to provide some current). I have some bubbly air wands, too. Furnishings will be a piece of driftwood, some rock caves, lots of plants, some PVC pipes, floating leaves, and some small pots to be cory caves.

Because both of my 10 gallons have the same pH of 6.8 and temp of 79 my plan is to combine my two 10 gallon tanks of fishes into this one tank. Right now I have 2 Schwartziis, 3 bronze cories, 1 peppered cory, 1 albino aenus cory, 1 leucomelas cory, 1 melanistius cory, 2 ornatus cories, 2 small khuli loaches, 1 neon, 1 red phantom, 1 oto, 3 cherry barbs, 1 tiger barb, and a small pleco. I'd like to get maybe 3 more otos, 5 more tiger barbs, and 3 more cherry barbs. Oh, and another couple neons to keep the one company. Will this amount of fishes work in this tank? Or does anyone have any other suggestions? Would it even be remotely possible somehow to house a synodontis eupterus? I was at the lfs today and found out they can order them. It would be neat to have one, but if it wouldn't work that's okay, too.

Also, I have a small shell in each tank to help stabilize the pH. Because in the bigger tank there will be more water, do I need a few more shells to help buffer the water more?

Anything else I need to think about?

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 25 Feb 2004, 10:09

That's allot of fish. The normal stocking guide is 1" of fish per gallon. So you should try to keep at least 50" of fish in your tank.

I'm concerned about the Red phantom (I take it that this is a tetra) and the tiger barbs. Tiger barbs are pretty aggressive and are fin nippers. The Red Phantom will normally pick on smaller or weaker fish. Having a small school might, but just don't overstock.

Just wondering, is the pH in your tap water too low, which is the reason you want to increase your pH.

FYI, don't forget to cycle the tank. When you change filter pads on your 10 gallon tank, don't throw it away, but just drop it in the 53 gallon tank when it's filled with water. There will be allot of beneficial bacteria on the filter pad. You can also use some gravel and even water from your other tanks to put into your 53 gal.

Post by **Rusty** » 25 Feb 2004, 13:18

Crazie.Eddie wrote:That's allot of fish. The normal stocking guide is 1" of fish per gallon. So you should try to keep at least 50" of fish in your tank.

Actually, that's not a lot at all for that tank with that filter. 1" per gallon as a rule does not work.

Fiskars, you should be fine with the fish you describe all in a 53. I would hold off on the Synodontis for now though. They get quite large pretty fast, and you may not have the space once your pleco (I assume it's a common) grows up.

Rusty

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 25 Feb 2004, 16:11

1" per gallon as a rule does not work.

Just curious on why it does not work, since majority of vetenerians or biologists follow that rule. True this is only kept for fish normally under 3-4". Some have even adopted the salt water rule for larger fish, which is the 1" per 5 gallons.

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 25 Feb 2004, 16:26

Hooray, thank you two for replying! I really appreciate it, as I'm probably going to be moving the fish this weekend.

Crazie.Eddie, the pH out of my tap is about 6.8, but before I had the shells, the water in the tanks would get down to around pH 6.4. It really fluctuated, so Barbie recommended that I put a small shell in each tank to help stabilize the pH and keep it more around 6.8, which it has been doing, but since I'll have so much more water I figured I would need a couple more shells.

Also, with the 53 gallon, I will be adding all of the gravel and decor from the two other tanks, plus the water and Marineland filters, which both have biowheels and I bet there's a good build-up of bacteria in the filter cartridges, as I haven't changed those in at least over a month. Just every time I do a water change I would swish the cartridge in the water I had just taken out of the tank. It would get the main big gunk off the cartridge and it hasn't decreased the water flow at all.

With the fish, right now I have 31" of fish total, so I figure I could possibly get 5" of tiger barb, 4" of oto, and then get a couple more cherry barbs and maybe danios (not everybody all at once, though!). I want to get at least five more tiger barbs (I have one already) so that they will release their aggressions together and not amongst other fish. I've read one needs at least six tigers for this, so hopefully it works!

Rusty, okay, I'll hold off on the Syno. I did more research and found that he might eat some of the smaller fish, like the neons, and they are expensive here that I can't have that happen.

My pleco is a common and I absolutely cannot wait for him to have a bunch of extra space! He seems happy now, but I bet he'll be 5x happier in a bigger tank! Just so I know, what is the max amount of fish this filter could handle? I would think 50" of fish at the absolute max, so I don't want to go over. But since you mentioned it, I thought I would ask.

What sort of water changes should I do? I was thinking 15 gallons (a little over 25%) once a week. Is this enough? It's not a problem to do more, but I want to make sure what the lowest limit is so I don't go under.

Thank you two so much for the replies! I was really wondering what to do but I didn't want to ask again and it's not fair/nice to nag about "Answer my post!!!

" because those posts annoy me and I figured someone would answer me eventually. So thanks a bunch!

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 25 Feb 2004, 18:30

Hey, it's not a problem. I'm a moderator at another freshwater fish forum. I answer alot of questions, believe it or not, most of them the same.

The 25% water change is fine.

Yes, adding the shells will work. If you can't find enough, maybe get a small bag of crush coral (normally used as a substrate). Try placing some in a media bag and hide it underneath the gravel. Make sure you monitor your pH during this time and adjust the bag to get the desired readings.

There is not definite answer regarding how much fish a filter can handle. Even the tank ratings on a filter isn't really a good judgement either. This is why we, hobbyist, should try to follow the 1" per 1 gallon rule. Most filters are rated for a tank with normal stock. Plus, some filters handle a load better than others. Also, some fish are messier than others, like cichlids and pl*cos. I always like to go with a filter that's rated higher than your tank size. Unless you plan to keep Angelfish and discus, the extra current would not be a problem. I currently use an Eheim 2128, which is rated for a 150 gallon tank, but I use it on a 55 gallon tank.

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 26 Feb 2004, 00:02

Oh, I am so frusterated! I had re-siliconed the inside of the tank in the edges and corners and then the other night I put some water inside the tank and noticed there was a little bubbly spot, so I re-siliconed that part and let that dry. Now today at lunch I was able to put more water into the tank, but found another leaky spot and this time it's in one of the corners. My dad suggested completely taking the tank apart and re-siliconing it, but I have no clue how to do that. He said since it has the metal frame around it, it's being held together by the metal, but I don't think it is. So should I just put more silicone in the corners and let that dry? I don't know if doing what I'm doing is working. Any thoughts?

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 26 Feb 2004, 07:55

Your best bet is to remove everything and silicone it. Use a razor blade or Xacto knife to cut away the silicone. You don't want to fill the tank all the way up, fill it with fish, and have it develop a leak a few months later.

metallhd · Post by **metallhd** » 27 Feb 2004, 01:41

Eddie - re your question about the 1" per gallon rule, it is all a matter of scale. There are similar exceptions for lighting a planted tank. The standard is 2-3 watts per gallon, but this can be easily exceeded in a smaller tank (say less than 10 gallons) - the same is true for huge tanks, I can't see anyone who's going to have thousands of watts over a bigger tank. Check out Plantella's site and you'll see what I mean - the guy's the heir apparent to Amano imo. As far as fish go, same again of course - a 200 gallon tank could probably handle more than 200 neons, and a 5-gallon tank can hold two 3-inch bettas and a cory no prob. It's all in the spin . . .

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 27 Feb 2004, 07:45

re your question about the 1" per gallon rule, it is all a matter of scale. There are similar exceptions for lighting a planted tank.

Not really my question...it's a general rule (not my rule) given by aquarium hobbyists.

Here are some examples...

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/begin ... shcalc.htm

The most widely known rule for stocking a tank is one inch of fish per gallon of water. While this type of calculation works as a rough estimate, it leaves plenty of room for error. Like people, fish are not all the same size and shape. Stocking a ten-gallon tank with ten inches of slender shaped zebras is not the same as stocking it with ten inches of full-bodied goldfish. Larger bodied fish create far more waste, and therefore require more water volume.

http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/stockguide.shtml

A good rule of thumb is one inch of fish per gallon of water but there are exceptions to this rule. The guideline of an inch of fish per gallon of water is based on a standard rectangular aquarium of normal height. If you have an unusually-shaped fish tank, such as a hexagonal, or extra high aquarium, try keeping one inch of fish for every 12 square inches (length times width) of aquarium surface area. Remember to allow for growth.

And another one at www.TropicalResources.Net, which gives a more detailed way of calculating to stock an aquarium.

Whether the general rule is followed or not, it's up to everyone. Just remember, health issues in fish normally happen due to fish stress. One of the ways fish become stressed is being in an overstocked tank.

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 28 Feb 2004, 13:35

I found more links to the stocking guide....

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwset-up.htm

The basic rule for keeping freshwater fish is one inch of fish per gallon to gallon and a half of water. No, this does not mean you can get yourself a ten gallon tank and put five 2 inch Oscars in it. This rule is based on the adult size of the fish you are keeping. It also changes for larger fish and depends on the aggression level and spawning tendencies of the fish.

http://www.adelaideaquariums.com.au/faq ... stionID=15

A rough guide to the number of fish is to allow approximately 1 litre of water per centimetre of fish where there is good filtration. Allow 2 litres or more per cm for small to mid-sized goldfish and cichlids, or where filtration and/or surface area may be limiting. Allow more water (3-4 l per cm) as the fish grow larger, or where they are territorial.

http://ourhouse.ninemsn.com.au/ourhouse ... 5996764b3a

The number of fish should be limited, as the new system cannot support full a organic load until the natural cycles have had a chance to establish. It is also important not to overcrowd the tank with fish. The basic rule is 1cm of fish per litre of water. Therefore, an aquarium of 100 litres provides enough space for around 20 fish sized 5cm. (Consider the expected final size of the fish.)

I found the above links by doing a Google search on "Freshwater stocking guide"

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 28 Feb 2004, 18:48

Well, I have some good news! They have a 50 gallon tank at the lfs that I think I am going to buy. I just don't think my other tank is take-apartable. The people at the lfs gave me a good deal on it, a stand (it's too long to fit on the lovely stand my dad built

), and two hoods. They have to order the stand, so it will be another week before it's in, but that's okay. So hopefully the end of next week sometime I'll have the new tank set up!

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 28 Feb 2004, 22:36

Cool. Congrats!

What size are you getting? Did you figure out what you will stock it with?

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 28 Feb 2004, 23:29

The new tank turns out to be a 55 gallon! It's 48"x12"(I think)x21", so it will actually be better in terms of surface area for oxygen. I just paid for the tank and everything about an hour ago. I am sooo excited! The lfs guy said he'd even throw in a $15 or under fish since I paid for everything at once! So I'm thinking I'm going to see if I can get two more otos. I bought one little guy yesterday and he is a tank-cleaning maniac! He was so happy when he found the algae between the glass and the heater that my pleco is too big to get. So he'll fit in fine.

I also bought two C. Trilineatus who are really happy to be with other cories. They went nuts when I fed everyone shrimp pellets!

I think I'm going to end up getting five more tiger barbs, five more neons, two more otos, three more cherry barbs (maybe...I might just get one more. I read they like to pair up and since I have three now maybe I'll just get one more), and some zebra and leopard danios (also another maybe). They have hatchetfish now at the lfs, which I really want but they are $11.90 each!!! *gasp!* SO expensive! My first one was maybe $5! So I probably won't be getting the hatchetfish.

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 29 Feb 2004, 01:59

Cool. Hatchet fish are cool. I like the marble hatchets. I plan to get them when I upgrade to a larger tank. I'm surprised they're expensive there though, but I guess they're hard to get in Alaska or maybe expensive to ship there.

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 29 Feb 2004, 02:41

Yes, these are the marbled hatchetfish! So cool! The ones at the lfs look like maybe juveniles. They are tiny and cute! Shipping anything to Alaska is very expensive, especially because I live on an island. There is no ground shipping, which is usually cheap! And getting fish here must be incredibly expensive because they raise their prices so much at the lfs. I saw their price list and I think cories were usually around $.50 and they sell them for $7.90.

The people that own the store usually give me a discount because I buy so much stuff there, but I can't imagine spending almost $12 for a tiny hatchetfish. And the five tiger barbs I want will be over $40. So for the owner to give me a $15 fish is really nice of him.