Catfish Advice

PhoenixUK · Post by **PhoenixUK** » 05 Jul 2005, 16:27

Hello to everyone, first time poster with a query regarding whats safe to keep with what

Recently my mother decided to keep an aquarium full of African Cichlids, specifically Malawe Cichlids (as far as i can tell). As i expected i've been assigned care and control officer of this delightful project... thats mothers for you.

I've got the tank stable, PH, temperature and nitrate wise, but would like to add a catfish or two to help keep the tank bottom clean, and because a tank without a catfish or just doesn't seem complete somehow.

Any suggestions on what species i can put in with the Cichlids would be much appreciated. Its a well decorated tank, with plenty of hiding spots and overhangs, but because its a cichlid aquarium their is no vegetation (the buggers dig it up in seconds).

Tank temperature is about 25 degrees, PH ideally about 8-8.2

Thanks in advance.
Newbie.

*edit* Apparently my fish are a dirty word... apologies, i'll be getting my coat.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 05 Jul 2005, 16:43

With malawi cichlids, you could consider some Synodontis species, especially those local to Lake Malawi. The only native Synodontis is , which can be a bit hard to find. An alternative is a Lake Tanganyika synodontis, which should like similar water conditions, there's , and that are relatively common.

If you want some fish to deal with algae and such things, a small and hardy Pleco would be idea. The Common Bristlenose is normally available at reasonable price and a good algae cleaner, and as long as you don't bring it from a really soft environment to hard water too quickly, it should work just fine in there.

Other than that, you'll have to give some more details on what you want from your catfish, other than it being a "catfish" and "cleaning up the bottom".

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Mats

PhoenixUK · Post by **PhoenixUK** » 05 Jul 2005, 16:59

More specifcs, k.

Something that will grow to a comfortable size in a 190 litre tank, that will help clean up excess food on the tank bottom. Cic's are bloody sensitive so anything that helps keep excess food from rotting is a bonus.
Not too worried about an algae grazer, as the Cic's are quite happy munching on that, and if i do get them breeding the fry will need it (supplmenet feeds not withstanding).
Something that can take a few knocks, nothing excessive but Cic's are known to be pushy with newcomers. AFAIK most catfish are nocturnal (correct?) so that should help, as the Cic's aren't.
The hardier the better, i am fairly new at this, but i'm learning fast.

Actually you've given me plenty to look at already

Thank you for your fast response.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 05 Jul 2005, 17:15

Most catfish are nocturnal, but far from all. I believe the best choice for you is a Synodontis of the smaller model. I already omitted variants that grow really large, so in the list I gave you, I'd recommend the S. Petricola and S. Polli. Petricola might also be "bad" because it's a Cuckoo-breeder, meaning that it plants it's eggs in another mouthbreeders mouth, and the fry lives off it's host's eggs/fry. S. Multipunctatus would work, except that it may grow beyond 20cm, which is too large for a 190L tank.

I'm sure Sidguppy has more advice to give than I do, but I think he'd give similar advice with some more details.

Of course, there are plenty of other catfish that MAY suit your tank. The ones I've suggested are ones that you will find in a similar environment to the fish you already have, which means that you're keeping to the biotope.

Having said that, you could also consider something like a Callichtaidae [sp?], such as . They are good at keeping the bottom clean, and fairly tolerant to varying water quality. They are also mostly nocturnal, and grow reasonably big so they should be able to keep up with some decent size fish.

I'm going to stop adding fish to the list now, as this could theoretically go on forever. There are about 2500 different (known) species of catfish, so there's plenty more to choose from, but unless you have specific reasons why the ones I've suggested are NOT suitable, then I'll leave it up to you to choose.

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Mats

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 05 Jul 2005, 17:53

I've got to correct a few things, no offense.....

petricola is NOT a chuckoo cat!!
It's the multipunctatus that's the broodparasite, not the petricola.

petricola's are by far the best choice for you.
they're small enough to fit comfortably in a 190 liter tank; they're shoalers (best keep 5-8 fish), very lively when kept as a shoal (!), very contrasting pattern with white spines on both pectoral and dorsal fins, cheap (because available everywhere) and very hardy.

The most common variety is the Zambian "dwarf" species, but they're almost always just labelled 'petricola'.
true petricola's are darker, bigger, slender and often very expensive.
'dwarfs' are often captive-bred (they're not that hard to breed

), wich is a bonus, because captive-bred fish are easier to keep than imports. cheaper too.

Synodontis petricola 'Dwarf'

disclaimer
do NOT keep Callichthyds like Brochis or Corydoras in a Malawitank!
They'll be ripped to pieces in no time.....

I've seen it happen too many times; people think that 'armoured' catfishes are somewaht cichlid-resistant'.
WRONG
a fish cannot live without it's eyes or fins; and Mbuna can and do dismantle Callichthyds with ease as a routine

Brochis is a day-active fish that reaches 8 cm or so, a peaceful shoaler that needs gentle tankmates, soft and neutral to acidic water, and very suitable with Angelfish, Discus or Geophagus; but NOT with Malawians.

petricola's will clean up your tank.
another similar good choice is the Synodontis "polli White", usually sold as 'polli'. it's requirements are very similar to S petricola, and both species can even shoal together.
Synodontis 'polli White'

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 05 Jul 2005, 18:11

Sidguppy,

Thanks for the corrections, I knew I could trust you to follow up if I got something wrong... And I'll remember not to recommend the brochis (etc) for cichlid companions in the future..

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Mats

PhoenixUK · Post by **PhoenixUK** » 06 Jul 2005, 09:36

many thanks, looks like some good solid advice.

Just on the shoalers, the tank contains 9 Cic's at the moment, and they've settled in quite well. Would 5 Petricola's be alright (thinking waste levels here) or would that be too much in a 190L tank?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 06 Jul 2005, 10:40

How big are the 9 fish in there (and more importantly, how big will they get)? If you don't know, let us know the specie of them, and I'm sure someone will be able to tell, even if I don't know myself.

I wouldn't have thought that 14 fish around 8-10cm would be a problem, but that's guessing that the fist stays around that size (which the petricolas should do, but not necessarily the others).

Of course, stocking fish-tanks is not a trivial equation of "x cm of fish per liter of water", but it's starting point. Thestocking calculator on Practical fishkeeping's website says that you can keep between 95 and 170 cm of fish in the tank. This is of course only a rough estimate, and it depends on the type of fish, filtration, maintenance regime, and lots of other things. 14 fish at 10cm -> 140 cm of fish, so roughly in the middle of that range.

The best way to determine safe stocking levels is to check the nitrate levels [1] at frequent intervals, particularly just before a water change. The ideal is to keep the nitrate level below 20 ppm at all times. If your tank is well below 20 ppm at the end of a water change cycle, then you can add more fish. If it's not well below this, you need to consider whether you want to increase your water change rate, before adding more fish. Of course, if you buy small/young fish that will grow much, you need to add a safety margin to these levels, as bigger fish will generate more waste which leads to higher nitrate levels.

[1] Of course, you also want to make sure that there's no nitrite or ammonia in the water, as these are signs of a overloaded filter (or newly set up tank), which is much worse than high nitrate levels.

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Mats

PhoenixUK · Post by **PhoenixUK** » 06 Jul 2005, 12:21

Still trying to identify specific species, as my mother bought the fish from the local pet store who seem to take a "If it looks pretty go for it" approach to fish care.
So far i've identified 2 Labidochromis Caeruleus, a melancrhomis auratus and a Pseudotropheus Saulosi (female/juve).
The rest are Mbuna's of some sort, though the color variation is making positive ID a headache. Further reports to follow.

Of course my identification is based purely on examples from other websites.

Post by **corybreed** » 06 Jul 2005, 12:50

Nine Mbuna in a 190 ltr tank should be fine even with the addition of the petricola. Mbuna do best in a comunity setting when they are crowded together, it diffuses the aggression. Make sure te tank contains a lot of rock work and hiding places. If your goal might be to breed a syno in this communtiy setting I would purchase multipunctatus instead. Buy the way you never listeed the dimensions of the tank. I hope the tank is at least 3 feet in length.

Mark

PhoenixUK · Post by **PhoenixUK** » 06 Jul 2005, 12:58

cool

Your information is helping me a lot, i really am picking this up as i go along. Theirs plently of rocks, caves, and overhands for the various fish to lay claim to, so that won't be a problem.

Keep the advice coming peoples

its all appreciated.

*edit* not actually measured the tank, but it is certainly over 3 feet in length. Will get some proper numbers after work tonight.