4ft Royal Pleco Tank

Star-flog · Post by **Star-flog** » 23 Jul 2005, 03:16

Recently brought a 4ft tank with the sole intention to keep Royals only. The tank size is 4ft x 2ft x 2ft (~ 120 gallon of water)

Filtration system:
- 1 TOM800 pump to drive the overhead filter (800GPH)
- 1 Eheim 2208 Pro II Canister filter (277GPH)
- 1 TOM400 powerhead for aeration and water current (400GPH)
- 1 SEIO Super flow pump for underwater movement (820GPH)

Current Royals in this 4ft tank:
- 1 Royal Pleco (L190, 6")
- 1 Royal Pleco (L027b, 3")
- 1 Royal Pleco (L027c, 4")

The questions:-
1) On above mentioned Filtration system & powerhead, whether it is too much "over-filter" as the water will be turn-around 19 times per hour? Isn't true the strong the current, is better for Royals Pleco?

2) For 4ft, whether the above 3 Royals Pleco with a total lenght of 13" already a bio-overload? If not, I plan to add in another Royal Pleco (L027a/L330, 8")?

Your advice would be very much appreciated. THANK YOU.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Jul 2005, 16:02

You do realize that Royal Pleco's grow to well beyond the 1 foot that is the biggest suitable size for your tank.

You need a tank at least 6-7 foot long, and about 3-4 foot wide, and two foot or more deep. Which is quite a big tank...

They aren't the fastest growers, so you have some time to sort things out, but you're eventually going to have a fish that is too big for your tank, assuming you look after your Panaque's properly.

As to your questions on bio-load and such, you really need to check your water quality to know what is going on. Water changes [and the original quality of water], efficiency of filtration system etc isn't very easy to predict from just reading about the tank. What and how much you're feeding them will matter too.

--
Mats

Post by **Shane** » 23 Jul 2005, 16:12

Star-flog,
I would not say the tank is over filtered at all. Healthy Panaque make more of a mess than probably any other catfish. In fact, the only way I have found to keep their tanks looking somewhat clean is massive mechanical filtration for the "sawdust" they produce. I would strongly recommend adding a large sponge filter to one of the powerheads.
I would also say, provided regular large scale water changes and proper filter maintenance are kept up, that you have plenty of room for more fish. The main limiting factor might be how well the fish get along more so than space constraints.
Given the unique dietary requirements of Panaque I think it is smart to keep only wood eating loricariids together. To diffuse aggression you might look at keeping some of the smaller Panaque spp., the ex-Cochliodons, and or L 92 the wood eating "Lasiancistrus."
-Shane

Post by **Shane** » 23 Jul 2005, 16:21

Just read Mats' post above after making my post. Mats is right that your fish will eventually get very big. The difference here, to my mind, is that it will be years and years down the road before you have several 12 inch plus fish to worry about and the current tank you have will be just fine for a long time. We should always take adult size into account when planning, but there is a difference between a predatory large pim that you can watch grow day by day and wood eating loricariid that may grow an inch or two every year.
-Shane

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 23 Jul 2005, 19:24

I recently bought one of the Seio pumps. It's very good for distributing the flow, as it advertised. The only drawback? Noise from vibration. The fish and I were both bothered by the noise. I'm going to look at some of the other bracket configurations included with the kit.

Star-flog · Post by **Star-flog** » 24 Jul 2005, 02:33

MatsP wrote:You do realize that Royal pl*co's
Panaque Nigrolineatus
grow to well beyond the 1 foot that is the biggest suitable size for your tank.

You need a tank at least 6-7 foot long, and about 3-4 foot wide, and two foot or more deep. Which is quite a big tank...

They aren't the fastest growers, so you have some time to sort things out, but you're eventually going to have a fish that is too big for your tank, assuming you look after your Panaque's properly.

As to your questions on bio-load and such, you really need to check your water quality to know what is going on. Water changes [and the original quality of water], efficiency of filtration system etc isn't very easy to predict from just reading about the tank. What and how much you're feeding them will matter too.

--
Mats

Thanks Mats and appreciated your advice.

I do realize evetually those Royals Pleco will be big (14" to 16" is not uncommon)...and also do comfirm with fellows member that Pleco grow rate is very slow, about 1" to 2" per year. Therefore, I still have 'time' to figure out what to do when they do grow this big.

Star-flog · Post by **Star-flog** » 24 Jul 2005, 02:51

Shane wrote:Star-flog,
I would not say the tank is over filtered at all. Healthy Panaque make more of a mess than probably any other catfish. In fact, the only way I have found to keep their tanks looking somewhat clean is massive mechanical filtration for the "sawdust" they produce. I would strongly recommend adding a large sponge filter to one of the powerheads.
I would also say, provided regular large scale water changes and proper filter maintenance are kept up, that you have plenty of room for more fish. The main limiting factor might be how well the fish get along more so than space constraints.
Given the unique dietary requirements of Panaque I think it is smart to keep only wood eating loricariids together. To diffuse aggression you might look at keeping some of the smaller Panaque spp., the ex-Cochliodons, and or L 92 the wood eating "Lasiancistrus."
-Shane

Hi Shane, thanks for your comments & advice.

You mentioned that with proper filteration of this 4ft tank, I still have 'plenty-of-room-for-more-fish'. Wow, that's great to know. I'm eyeing for 1 more L027a/L330 (8"), 1 LDA63 (4") & 1 L191 (4") to complete this Royals Pleco tank.

Is there a rule saying : 1" lenght of Pleco = 3 gallon of water ?

Star-flog · Post by **Star-flog** » 24 Jul 2005, 03:17

bronzefry wrote:I recently bought one of the Seio pumps. It's very good for distributing the flow, as it advertised. The only drawback? Noise from vibration. The fish and I were both bothered by the noise. I'm going to look at some of the other bracket configurations included with the kit.

Got the SEIO M820 model.
I detached directional snout and motor housing and then used the mounting option 2 (Horizontal mounting), refer to product technical manual.
With this mouting, the noise and vibration hardly noticable.
I like this pump becuase it generates gentle underwater current across the tank, its quite different from the normal powerhead flow. The best part, it consumes only 16 watt of electricity for 820GPH.
Good stuff !

Post by **Shane** » 24 Jul 2005, 16:20

Is there a rule saying : 1" lenght of pl*co = 3 gallon of water ?

I have never heard of that rule specifically, but all length to gallon rules are bogus. 1) The single biggest factor is water changes. A 100 gallon tank with a fair anmount of fish that gets weekly 25-40 percent water changes will be healthier than a 100 gallon tank with fewer fishes that gets 10 percent changes every two weeks. Do the math. If the tank builds up 10 ppm nitrates every week
week 1-2: 20 ppm
10 percent water change: 18 ppm
week 3-4: 38 ppm
10 percent water change: 34 ppm

Same tank with 40 percent changes every week
week 1: 10 ppm
40 percent water change: 6 ppm
week 2: 16 ppm
40 percent water change: 9 ppm
week 3: 19 ppm
40 percent water change: 12 ppm
week 4: 22 ppm
40 perecnt water change: 15 ppm

After a month, the tank that receives weekly large water changes will have lower nitrates than the tank that gets a 10 percent change every two weeks had before the first water change!
These rules also do not work because mass, not length, is the important factor. A 10 inch Farlowella does not make the same mess as a 10 inch Panaque.
-Shane

Star-flog · Post by **Star-flog** » 25 Jul 2005, 06:54

Shane wrote:
Is there a rule saying : 1" lenght of pl*co = 3 gallon of water ?
I have never heard of that rule specifically, but all length to gallon rules are bogus. 1) The single biggest factor is water changes. A 100 gallon tank with a fair anmount of fish that gets weekly 25-40 percent water changes will be healthier than a 100 gallon tank with fewer fishes that gets 10 percent changes every two weeks. Do the math. If the tank builds up 10 ppm nitrates every week
week 1-2: 20 ppm
10 percent water change: 18 ppm
week 3-4: 38 ppm
10 percent water change: 34 ppm

Same tank with 40 percent changes every week
week 1: 10 ppm
40 percent water change: 6 ppm
week 2: 16 ppm
40 percent water change: 9 ppm
week 3: 19 ppm
40 percent water change: 12 ppm
week 4: 22 ppm
40 perecnt water change: 15 ppm

After a month, the tank that receives weekly large water changes will have lower nitrates than the tank that gets a 10 percent change every two weeks had before the first water change!
These rules also do not work because mass, not length, is the important factor. A 10 inch Farlowella does not make the same mess as a 10 inch Panaque.
-Shane

Hi Shane, thanks for your detailed explanation and much appreciated. Now I know why weekly water change is so important

By the way, is it common for Pleco tank to change 40% of water every week ? I normally change about 20% - 30% of water weekly.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 25 Jul 2005, 11:11

Star-flog wrote:Hi Shane, thanks for your detailed explanation and much appreciated. Now I know why weekly water change is so important
By the way, is it common for pl*co tank to change 40% of water every week ? I normally change about 20% - 30% of water weekly.

I'm not Shane, but I think it's fair to say that if you keep large pleco's (or other large fish) in any tank that isn't HUGE in comparison to the fish, you need fairly frequent and large water changes.

You can calculate the water changes based on your nitrate level. The nitrate level should be, ideally, less than 20 ppm. If it's higher than that, you need to do more water changes, either in bigger amounts each time, or more often. More often is better, so twice a week will keep the water in better condition than if you change it only once, perhaps changing 20% at a time, rather than 40% once a week.

Checking your water quality is the only way to really know if you keep on top of the mess made by the fish or not.

--
Mats

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 25 Jul 2005, 13:43

I'll try mounting option #2. I've never seen a pump come with so many options.