Lophiobagrus sp & L. cyclurus (warning: big pics!!)

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 15 Mar 2003, 16:37

Here are a few pics from some of my charges:
first the true Lophiobagrus cyclurus; watch the overal shape, the color and especially the edge of the tailfin!
Dorsal view:

from the side:

Here's Lophiobagrus sp!
dorsal view:

from the side:

head on:

note the wider mouth; the bigger eye, the reddish color, and the absence of the clear edge on the tailfin, as well as the shape of the adipose....
The animals are in good health, but a bit p####d off by being in a glass phototank. They are also about the same size (6-7 cm)

Suggestions, anyone?

btw Jools and others, if you want to use some of it for the Cat-e-log , feel free to do so! The pics were made by me, with my own cam, so just PM me and I'll send you the whole, unedited batch of pics.

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 15 Mar 2003, 17:48

I'll share this too: it's the baby lophio, the one remaining child of the Lophio sp pair.
The pics aren't really good, but MAN this is ONE lively little fella!
dorsal view

ventral view

side view

the coin is a 50 eurocent coin. about 1". (24,5 mm to be precise)

Post by **Silurus** » 15 Mar 2003, 21:26

The other species is L. brevispinis as far as I can make out. Any chance of getting a sharper side view shot of the fish?

Post by **Dinyar** » 15 Mar 2003, 22:39

One of my four Lophios looks like what Silurus calls "L. brevispinis", but I always considered it a L. cyclurus. Why do you say it's "L. brevispinis", Silurus?

Dinyar

Post by **Silurus** » 15 Mar 2003, 22:45

This is a guesstimate based on the dorsal-adipose distance.
Of course, I could ask Reeve (Bailey) what he thinks, but I try not to start a conversation with him if I can help it.

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 16 Mar 2003, 00:39

So I've bred brevispinus??
the baby one is the young from the pair without the clear edge/bigger eyes etc etc.

OK here come all the other pics I've taken from this fish: they are probably not really OK, but you might spot some details.
It's VERY HARD to take pics of these! You have to catch them, and pester them in a small glass tank; they are WAY too shy, fast and nocturnal to 'pose'.......
And all the Lophio's are now back in a neat rocky setup, with a cleaned filter, and a sandy substrate and holey rock, so they can dig out nests and hopefuully breed some more. I won't be pestering them anyway soon.
Sideview2:

Detail of tail:

viewed from the left:

head on again:

Another mugshot:

as you can see now; the shape of the tailfin differs! Whereas L cyclurus has a squared off tailfin; the Lophio sp has a rounded one. This is fairly visible too, when they are carousing in the tank. The true cyclurus has a more "straight" bodyshape when viewed from aside, the "sp" (brevispinis?) has the shape of a 'raindrop' when viewed from the side; esp the caudal peduncle is narrower.

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 16 Mar 2003, 09:53

Siluris; maybe it's L ASPERISPINUS; the overal shape matches, as well as the big eye, and most important; the dorsal spine is too long for brevispinus.
see
http://www.scotcat.com/factsheets/lophi ... clurus.htm

ps according to those pics on the factsheet; the one pic in the Cat-E-Log labelled as Asperispinus isn't a Lophiobagrus at all, and I'm incluned to think so too; looks more like some Chrysichthys to me.

Post by **Silurus** » 16 Mar 2003, 11:25

Bearing in mind that L. asperispinis is a species described largely from very young fish, a number of the characters seens are not likely to be diagnostic of the species (one example is the big eye, which all juvenile fish have).
This makes it very difficult to say whether or not your fish is L. asperispinis, since no reliable picture of an adult specimen exists (plus I suspect no one knows what an adult looks like).

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 16 Mar 2003, 13:43

This gets more interesting (and confusing) by the minute....then how comes it, that big black cat is labeled in the Cat-e-log as such?

Post by **Silurus** » 16 Mar 2003, 14:19

You're right, the L. asperispinis in the Cat-eLog is something else.
I still suspect L. brevispinis (need my copy of Bailey & Stewart to confirm). The dorsal to adipose distance seems wrong for L. asperispinis, although this is known to change with growth (I would expect it to become bigger than the drawings currently show...I do not know if the adipose fin will eventually be as far away from the dorsal fin in L. asperispinis as for L. brevispinis, but I suspect not).

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 16 Mar 2003, 14:47

OK I'll settle for brevispinis fotr the time being.
And hope they'll breed again!
I was doubting brevispinis by the short dorsal spine of that fish; mine have a regular dorsal spine, about 1/2 as high as the soft part of the dorsal fin.
And the drawings are confusing too; they should have drawed those cats from above as well; my "brevispinis" have a very obvious wide mouth and thick upperlip, different from the cyclurus. That isn't seen on the drawings at all.
But their eyes are definitely bigger than those of cyclurus, wich is easily seen, since both of my biggest Lophio's are almost exactly the same size, making them easy to compare. (the female 'brevispinus' is a wee bit smaller)

Post by **Dinyar** » 16 Mar 2003, 15:09

Among my four Lophiobagrus, there is one that has always looked very different frrom the others. It is the fish to the left in the picture below (taken about a year ago, when the fish were very young juveniles). Though the fish is much larger now, it is still a brownish-purple color (similar to Sid's L. "brevispinis") relative to the jet black of the other three. It may also have a slightly wider mouth.

Dinyar

Post by **Silurus** » 16 Mar 2003, 20:15

I scrutinized Bailey & Stewart closely, but that didn't help too much. It seems that all lighter brown Lophiobagrus are either L. brevispinis or L. asperispinis.
Sid, was the adipose origin of the fish in front of(L. asperispinis) or behind (L. brevispinis) the anal-fin origin? The length of the dorsal spine does suggest L. asperispinis.
I can probably go look at the preserved L. brevispinis in our collection to confirm, but don't particularly feel like going into the collection, especially not when the weather's so beautiful outside.

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 16 Mar 2003, 23:09

Hey, it's nice weather here too, for a change, at least it was this afternoon.
I'll check on the fins soon; but for what it's worth: I set-up the tank again, and took up the can with the flashlight on: and I had to share this, try to find the baby!

sid
btw has the Mochokiella arrived yet?