new problem ^^;;;;;

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 19 Mar 2006, 23:05

I have a pleco currently and have had one for as long as my family has had fishtanks.
I believe that my pleco is a common one and I know that he is an algea eater and such, but I don't know much more.
He is very very tiny, and rarely eats what I give him which makes me very sad.
He lives off of the plants I am guessing seeing as those are dieing.
><
Basically he lives with guppies and he gets his pellets, but he will often forfeit them to a baby guppy.
I was just wondering if anybody could give me any tips on how to tell if it is male or female, and/or a list of snacks that I can give it.
I love my Tiny but {s}he just doesn't want to eat and it is frustrating and also it makes me worry.. {s}he doesn't appear to be sick either so it makes me wonder..
Anyways I will stop typing now to get some info.
>< Any comments would be appreciated.

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 20 Mar 2006, 02:38

Sorry that the pictures aren't that good, my camera does not like the light/glass mixture I guess. ^^;;
But yeah he is pretty small... so any suggestions would be welcome.
He is only about 7 cm {Just over 2.5 inches><} so yeah not that big.
He has been in a 20 gallon tank for about 3 months now, and he had been in a 10 gallon for a few months before that... I don't know if he should have grown more by now, one of my previous plecos and grown so that he was too big for the 10 gallon... so yeah..
Once again any suggestions would be welcome.

Kana3 · Post by **Kana3** » 20 Mar 2006, 08:04

For the Camera problem - you're too close. Just pull back a couple of inches.

If Tiny is not looking too thin around the belly, then (s)he is probaly eating ok. If you are worrying, and putting in extra food, (s)he probaly has too much to handle.

Many fruits and vege's are good for Plec's. But to start off simply, a favoured selection is Zucchini. Slice a section in half length-ways. Stick a spoon handle through it, to weight it down.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 20 Mar 2006, 10:00

Hi.

If you could answer all the questions in this sticky, we may be able to get to the bottom of the problem.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4305

You fish looks like a from the pics. Although the fish is listed there as reaching 10", a total length of about 18" to 24" is more realistic for this species.

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 20 Mar 2006, 14:12

Thanks.
And I am not overfeeding my baby, just she doesn't like to eat anything but that plant...
And the camera problem was not solved by moving farther away.><
I tried every distance I could. ^^;;
And my parents kinda don't allow for me to get enough stuff to answer most of those questions. x.x
They just get city water that has sat for awhile with some water conditioner.
So the ph is around 7 I believe.
And thankies for the comments, that is great.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 20 Mar 2006, 14:25

Is there any particualar reason you set the typesize to "tiny" and italic? It makes it really hard to read... And I think it's rather childish to post this in the form of a Poll - I think most people on this forum will do their best to help if they can, and if the can't, they probably will not vote in a poll about it either.

Anyways, I've written a piece on how to feed plecos, it's in the Shane's World section called "Feeding Plecos, Part 1".

And you really do need to find out what your water parameters are like, because it will probably tell us what, if anything, is wrong with your water - it may be perfectly fine, or it may be horribly off, but without tests for at least:
Nitrate
Nitrite
Ammonia
we can't really say.
If you can't get a test-kit (US$20-40 or around 10-20 pounds in the UK), then you can take a sample of your water to the local fish-shop and ask them to give you the result of the tests. Make sure you get the NUMBERS of the results, not just "it's OK" or "it's bad", because by looking at the numbers, we can tell more than just "bad" or "ok".

Edit:

How much water do you change in the tank, and how often?

Also, you asked about sexing the fish - it's hard. You can look at the genital papilla and see if it's pointed or rounded. If it's pointed, it's a male. But it's not really relevant, as these fish are only bred in LARGE outdoor ponds in tropical climate, such as Florida or Thailand. They dig burrows in the side of the pond to use as breeding caves, and there are probably a thousand or so small babies from one spawn.

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 20 Mar 2006, 14:34

Common plecs are very greedy, and will eat almost any food you care to give them.

If he's not eating, then it is very likely there is a water quality problem.

You will be able to answer these questions...

Do often do you change the water?

How many guppies are there with him?

What filter do you use?

Is his stomach hollow or sunken?

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 20 Mar 2006, 22:35

I'm sorry for typing in a smaller font.><
I just do in all other forums and such so yeah. ^^;;
I will stop that.
And sorry for the poll and everything... I just enjoy making polls...
And thanks for the info.
And I will have to check that stuff out, once my mother lets me buy something new for my tank...

And I refill the tank whenever the water gets too low, cause the water likes to evaporate a lot.. don't know why but it does.
And so I get some water and let it sit for a few days then I add it in.

Also there are 2 adult guppies, and then 8 babies:
2 of them are almost full grown, 2 are very very tiny..
and then the rest are halfway full grown
and this is a twenty gallon tank
the filter is an Aquaclear 150
and his tummy is flat...

Iporangensis Headach · Post by **Iporangensis Headach** » 21 Mar 2006, 02:04

This is going to make some of you cry!

I have a sail fin pleco and he was off his food and I could not work it out so I bought 3 test kits (PH, Nitrate/ite? Cant remember which, and Ammonia) and made some graphs on my computer to track the findings and then I made on big graph to put it into perspective

I tested the waster 3 times a day (Why you ask well you will see)

Now this is going to make some of you gasp with horror,

My Nitrite and ammonia was undetectable, BUT my PH was 7 but in 3 days (yes 3 days) it had a PH of 4!!! Donâ??t ask me how the fish survived but they did. I was going to put them in a bath tub filled with coke cola as that probably does not have a PH that low.

The gold fish did not care as he had been neglected in a 12â?

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 21 Mar 2006, 09:56

And I refill the tank whenever the water gets too low, cause the water likes to evaporate a lot.. don't know why but it does.

How often do you CHANGE the water? With your method of top-ups you are simply concentrating all the pollution (nitrates etc) in the tank. Every time you do this, the tank gets more and more polluted.

When was the last time you took some water out?

Also what temperature of the tank? it may account for the evaporation.

Iporangensis Headach, I would kill for your water!

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 21 Mar 2006, 13:10

I honestly don't know... probably when I moved them into the new tank on December 25th...
{{Edit} I had a dalmation molly back then... and a few days later {December 27th or 28th...} we bought some fish and three plants, a {sundrop??} molly and a few plattys, the water turned green a few days later and we went and got things tested, only to find out that it was just algea, so now we have a plant that likes to suck up stuff like that... but we did a water change probably around the 3rd {my mother didn't want to take an hour drive to the city where we got our fish}
and as for that dalmation molly, I think the guppies actually managed to stress him out enough that he died {he liked to bully my baby guppies and the -older- baby male stood up for them, kinda funny really}
But yeah now I think I am gonna get some water ready for a water change... and a testing will be done... not until a few weeks though.

this is bad...>> }

The peoples at the pet stores just tell us to keep the water the same, and clean the filters and such...
And the temperature is 74....

Iporangensis Headach: That did make me almost cry, and now I am gonna push for a test kit. {If only I had a job.}

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 21 Mar 2006, 13:43

Also, there has been some algea forming on the walls of the tank.. not much but a small amount, and it is staying in one spot.
Why this is I don't know...
But my pleco hasn't touched it for a few days, and I have been wondering why not, and if I should clean off the algea or wait for him to start eating...

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 21 Mar 2006, 20:02

You need to change at least 25% of the water every week to keep your fish healthy.

Swimming in their own filth (nitrates) will not only put them off their food, it will kill them.

Change 25% every 3 days from now with dechlorinated fresh water. Do this about 6 times.

I would also raise the temp to about 78F, as this may kickstart the plecos appetite.

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 21 Mar 2006, 22:29

Okies... thanks.
Sadly I can't do that till I get back.

:(:(
That will be like.. in two weeks exactly.
-Sigh.- I hope they survive.
But yeah thanks.^^;;
And also, is that hazardous for guppies?
I hear 75 is the max... -slightly confused-

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 21 Mar 2006, 23:34

Yes, I must add that now you can see some signs of his stomach being sunken..
He has a cucumber at the moment though, he acts as though he would rather die than eat it however

Iporangensis Headach · Post by **Iporangensis Headach** » 22 Mar 2006, 01:03

i had my guppys at 79deg for about 2 monthes and they were fine also had them at 7deg when the heater broke! tough little cookies they would not stop breeding i got a 2 tone purple and orange with the yellow/black cobra tail (quite special)

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 22 Mar 2006, 01:08

okies thankies
I changed the water just now... roughly 25%
and also I put up the temperature...

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 22 Mar 2006, 09:29

I hear 75 is the max... -slightly confused-

Unless someone can correct me, I don't think there is any problem with keeping guppies at 78F.

Baensch Vol 1 gives 64F-82F.

He has a cucumber at the moment though, he acts as though he would rather die than eat it however

That's not surprising, given that he is in a 20g tank without a water change for three months.

And also, is that hazardous for guppies?

Although guppies are hardy, they will succumb to nitrate related illness eventually. It stops their growth and shortens their life.

Try a quarter of a Hikari algae wafer rather than cucumber, it will be much more palatable. Remove all uneaten food within 12 hours.

and also I put up the temperature...

You didn't just turn the heater up from 72 to 78 did you? The change should be gradual, ie one degree per day.

Keep doing the water changes, until he starts eating.
Good luck.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 22 Mar 2006, 12:13

Isn't there someone looking after the fish for you? I'd say anyone can siphon some water out and fill it up with new water. As long as the water isn't much warmer than the current temperature in the tank, it should be fine. Waiting two weeks may well be too long...

Raising the temp to 78'F should be fine with commercially bred guppies - they are bred in Thailand, at temps between 75 and 80'F.

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 22 Mar 2006, 13:09

Yeah the water has been changed now...
And my mother is angry enough about having to feed the guppies a few times per day.... She won't be up for cleaning the tank...
And thanks for that info on shortening their growth, that sucks seeing as I worked so hard to try and make them healthy and happy and now most likely I am killing them.

I think I suck at being a guppy breeder, kinda sad really..

And okies thankies, he didn't touch the cucumber at all so I will try that ASAP.
It will be a long fight to get the food though... hopefully he can survive awhile longer...

And also, it was at 75... so it is up a little bit, not much.
And yeah I do gradual changes, learned that the hard way one time with sharks.

Post by **Barbie** » 22 Mar 2006, 18:14

If noone is going to be changing the water, feeding more than every other day is just causing the fish to live in a toxic waste dump, not doing them a favor, IMO. Fish can get by for long periods of time with little to no food, but the more you feed, the faster their water quality deteriorates. Not a good idea! Live plants and enough light would at least help stabilize their conditions some, if that was an option for you.

Barbie

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 23 Mar 2006, 01:27

I am gone for a week..
And I have a light that runs for the day, and then the live plants are slowly dieing from my pleco finding them it's source of food
but yeah I got the water tested, and the ph is 7.5, and the nitrate is 0
so I dunno what is wrong with it...
-le sigh-
but yeah at the store they had something called {something} repheal and cold water and bulldog plecos
If it weren't for the fact that my tank is having issues I would have bought the rapheal and a cold water>< but then I found out rapheal are aggressive...but yeah the cold water pleco looks interesting {any info would be nice on those for later when things are sorted out}
but yeah any suggestions on why my pleco isn't eating now?

Iporangensis Headach · Post by **Iporangensis Headach** » 23 Mar 2006, 01:27

Mickey
Looking at your post's you mum realy is not helping you is she? is the problem you are to young to work? and cannot afford the food, medecation, water treatments etc etc, as i was in this position also when i was younger, as it is a lot of cash to keep it all going

I offered to work round the house every day for a one off payment at the start of the month and with that i stocked up with as much as i possibly could, that way i still bought the bits i needed but i had a supply to fall back on.

With water changes, ask for somthing small like replacing a cup full per day, it only takes 20 seconds and a cup is about 330ml so thats 2 letres a week.

Or do what i did and got my mum a tank and a goldfish for mothers day, they soon want to join in and help out.

You need to sort this issue out as its killing your fish!

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 23 Mar 2006, 01:42

Yeah I am 16 and can work, just the application sitting infront of me confuses me, and my mother has left me to tough it out.
And also I get a 5 dollar allowance, so yeah that goes to my getting milk for lunch... I would just skip that and save the money, but I have braces so I really need it.><
And she used to have a tank, she got the pleco so she wouldn't have to touch the tank.
Funny that pleco only caused problems for her.
Including she is allergic to fish.><
And she will help me, but only if I have managed to get to the pet store, on a day when no other money has been spent {or will be} and I catch her with a whole bunch of information...
and yeah she no touchy water that had fish in it

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 23 Mar 2006, 08:31

but yeah I got the water tested, and the ph is 7.5, and the nitrate is 0

Is that, nitrate or nitrite?

If that result is correct, then there is something very seriously wrong with your tank.

A zero value of nitrite is good, but a zero value of nitrate means your tank is not matured enough to support fish (which would be why your plec isn't eating).

Yeah the water has been changed now...

When you get back home, you will need to keep changing 25% of the water every 2 days or so, until the plec starts eating.

I get a 5 dollar allowance

Keeping your fish need not be expensive. All you need to keep them happy is a bottle of dechlorinator, a tub of good quality fish food, and some vegetables (like zuccini).

but yeah at the store they had something called {something} repheal and cold water and bulldog pl*cos

The raphael grows too big for your tank, and the others are fish for the specialist fishkeeper. They need specific requirements.

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 23 Mar 2006, 13:08

Sorry I couldn't spell at that moment, nitrite...
And yeah I have guppy food and some food that both guppies and plecos can eat, and now stuff soley for plecos
daddy drove me to a pet store
and thanks for the info on those plecos... I feel sorry for them at the store though, I half want to grab that bulldog that is in with the rapheals and goldfish. >< the rapheals seemed okies with the tank but it didn't...
and yeah thanks with that info
and I am planning on changing the water..

I also moved the pleco into a smaller tank, that just had food in it, and he ate the algea pellet {I think} and he nibbled at the cucumber, but didn't really touch it... does it just not like cucumber? cause I blanched it {sp} so it would be easy enough to eat...

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Mar 2006, 14:25

If the fish is larger than 3/4" (2cm), then it should be fine with eating raw cucumber, zucchini, regular potato and sweet potato. All are perfectly fine in raw form.

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 23 Mar 2006, 18:12

also moved the pl*co into a smaller tank, that just had food in it,

Is this an established tank with a mature filter?

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 23 Mar 2006, 22:29

yeah I put in blanched and raw, didn't touch either
and Tiny didn't touch the algea..
Also this tank didn't have any filtration or anything but yeah it has been used for a long time..
he is back into the main tank seeing as he could care less about the food...
apparently plecos dieing has been a common thing around here as of late

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 24 Mar 2006, 04:48

But yeah this is the last time I can get on the computer, seeing as I am leaving tomorrow..
I will let you know how my baby is doing when I get back
but yeah that is awhile away
any tips until then would be great

new problem ^^;;;;;

Will you help?

new problem ^^;;;;;