Hybrid theory

[Taratron]

I'm sure this has been hit upon before, but short of greed for greenbacks and gold, what incentive is there really in making hybrids? Since this is a cat board, let's stick with cats, rather than cichlids and the like. Admittedly, there can be "natural hybrids" formed and bred in nature, but these are certainly not what the majority of the imports are, correct?

Tangent aside.

So from a breeder's POV. You have a tub full of synodontis, say. Some multis, some euterpus, and the like. Why would you bother to try and make two different species breed? Hormones are expensive and time consuming, I'm sure, and surely there are some genetic combos that leave you with very weak fry, hence no profit. So why bother trying to mix two species, rather than keeping the lines pure? Is there any good reason outside of money, and the thrill of adding some new manmade species name onto your import list? Golden Striped Multi Syno....

I apologize if this came out odd, but I finally got some dose of caffiene...

[Mike_Noren]

I'm sure this has been hit upon before, but short of greed for greenbacks and gold, what incentive is there really in making hybrids? Since this is a cat board, let's stick with cats, rather than c*****ds and the like.

It's the same people hybridizing cichlids, though. Estern european breeders, particularly czech it seems.
I don't know for sure, but I can think of a couple of reasons:

1) You only have one specimen of a rare species. So you mate it with a similar species, and sell the offspring as purebreds. Who's to know, right, and you can make a killing.
2) Hybrids are more difficult to breed, so you keep hobby-breeders from competing with you.
3) You can create novelties which do not exist in nature. I had a hybrid which was iridescent green; another guy reported a hybrid with blue fins; and recently a picture of an attractive spotted hybrid with lemon-yellow base color was posted.
4) Hybrids typically grow faster, attain a bigger final size, and are less susceptible to disease than either parent species.
5) Because the breeder simply doesn't care. The breeders are like puppy-mills, industrially churning out fish without caring about quality.

Basically the only *downside* to creating hybrids is that the very few people who can identify the fish as hybrids don't like it.

[MatsP]

Just a quick comment on the subject:
I think reason #2 in the above post isn't particularly important. There are very few "hobbyist" breeders that can compete with commercial breeding facilities in volume, and if you have large volume facilities, you're going to have better "economy of scale", so although hobby breeders may take less profit, they aren't a real thread to the commercial facilities. Other commercial facilities may be a threat, but they aren't going to start with Hybrids for breeding anyways. [Actually, it's probably BETTER if the hobby breeders don't succed in breeding the hybrids, so if they are harder to breed than the natural counterparts, all the better, because it stops a second wave of hybrids].

All other arguments why they are breeding hybrids makes sense. #3, #4 and #5 particularly. And #5 is definitely a part of it, the breeder do not care what "frankenfish" he creates.

"Basically the only *downside* to creating hybrids is that the very few people who can identify the fish as hybrids don't like it."

Yeah, but lets make it a few more ...

--
Mats

[racoll]

hybrids are usually sterile. although it depends on the chromosomal homology of the parent species.

[MatsP]

hybrids are usually sterile. although it depends on the chromosomal homology of the parent species.

Yes, and that's a good thing, as it prevents even more hybrids from being generated by crossing hybrids with themselves, etc.

But I believe this is a side-effect of the moneygrabbing b******s rather than the targeted effect. They may of course see it as a positive side-effect rather than negative. I'm rather sure that hobby breeders is little concern to any commercial breeder that has enough facilities to produce thousands of hybrid synodontis (or other hybrids).

Considering that these fish aren't exactly breeding like guppies (or even like Ancistrus), the hobbyists aren't going to put any noticable dent in the supply of synodontis, compared with a large commercial breeder or wild-caught specimens.

--
Mats

[pturley]

racoll wrote:

hybrids are usually sterile. although it depends on the chromosomal homology of the parent species.

Don't count on it...

This is often the case in higher vertebrates (mule for example), however in fish it is not nearly as likely. Genetics in fish are generally much more plastic

It is quite likely that these Synodontis hybrids will be fertile. If not with themselves then at least with either founding species.

Fertility in intergeneric hybrids (not just interspecific) is shown in reptiles. The Kingsnake (Lampropeltis)/corn snake (Elaphe) cross called a "Jungle Corn" is a good example.
It's my understanding that these hybrids are fertile with either founding species, but not always with each other (some crosses are though).
Once outcrossed, the line is then completely reproductive.