Loricariidae mud tunnels/holes in the wild--how big are they

biomechmonster · Post by **biomechmonster** » 30 Mar 2005, 14:41

Was thinking of making some caves/holes out of PVC to resemble these. I'm thinking 6" diameter holes will be large enough for my 16" gibby--am I wrong? I only have about 8" of space to work with anyway so a 8" pipe is cutting it close. Thanks....

ClayT101 · Post by **ClayT101** » 30 Mar 2005, 19:05

Well, according to this link:

http://el.erdc.usace.army.mil/elpubs/pd ... -v04-1.pdf

The can go 100 cm deep

biomechmonster · Post by **biomechmonster** » 30 Mar 2005, 20:08

Awesome article and thanks but I'm looking for advice on how big the entrance should be, not depth.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 30 Mar 2005, 20:17

Generally, Loricariid's like a "cave" that is just a tiny bit bigger than the fish itself, so it's a "tight fit". They will of course use a bigger cave if no other option is available, but if your fish is, say, three inches across the widest/highest point, a four inch pipe will be just great.

As long as they can get in there, they'll be happy.

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Mats

1tankneverenuff · Post by **1tankneverenuff** » 31 Mar 2005, 04:02

How can they get out of holes so small?

biomechmonster · Post by **biomechmonster** » 31 Mar 2005, 13:58

Minature jet-powered backpacks.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 31 Mar 2005, 15:44

1tankneverenuff wrote:How can they get out of holes so small?

How do you mean? If the hole is bigger than the fish, it can get in and out. Just like parking in a single car garage, it's a case of either reversing in, or out... In the case of pleco's, it's usually reverse in, and "forward" out.

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Mats

biomechmonster · Post by **biomechmonster** » 31 Mar 2005, 20:16

So they prefer to back into the holes then? Is this a rule or just a general preference? My aquarium is 25 inches wide so the tunnels can only be so long--I was thinking 10" but can expand this if necessary. Give me your thoughts before I commit to purchasing some pipe.

PS: While I have seen photographs of plecos facing out of mud tunnels, while observing the jumbo plecos in Shedd Aquarium (Chicago)'s primarily pleco tank (which has a wall of artifical mud tunnels), I have observed plecos go in the tunnels primarily head-first.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 31 Mar 2005, 22:05

A ten inch tunnel will hardly be enough for a 16" fish, will it? Last time I did math, they said that 16 - 10 gives 6, so your fish is 6 inches bigger than the tunnel accoridng to that principle...

Anyway, they like sitting "head out". I don't know if they always go in tail first, or if they prefer a hole that they can turn around in...

But I've certainly seen my bristlenose male reverse itself into a small crack between rocks. I've also seen it reverse out of a hole...

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Mats

biomechmonster · Post by **biomechmonster** » 01 Apr 2005, 13:55

Yes, I remember my basic math

But I don't have much room to work with--give me credit for trying! The majority of the fish is tail, however.

So if I attempt to put say, a 14" pipe into a 25" space, it wouldn't bother the plecos? What's the max size pipe I could put in a space of that size? Please refrain from trying to critique my math skills and give me actual advice, thanks.

CatBrat · Post by **CatBrat** » 02 Apr 2005, 09:27

The pipe doesn't have to run from the front of the aquarium to back, you could have it running length ways (from one side of the tank to the other). That way you could have the pipe the lenght needed.
Also, I feel that it is better to have the breeding cave longer that the total lenght of the fish, so the whole thing fits in there with lenght to spare.

Cheers, CatBrat.

biomechmonster · Post by **biomechmonster** » 02 Apr 2005, 17:02

Or maybe put the pipes at an angle.

I'm not making breeding caves, I just want the fish to be happy.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 06 Apr 2005, 11:16

Definitely think that it makes sense to have a cave that is at some different angle than "along to the side wall". Of course, you'll probably find the same thing as I did:
My Gold Nuggest was hiding under a bunch of rocks, where I had no way of seeing it.

So I thought I'd build a nice little cave for it, and place where the rocks where... Went to the garden center, got a good length (about 1.2m/4ft) of suitable bamboo, and cut two sections to make a pair of caves.

I took, the rocks out and put the cave in it's place. When I lifted the rocks, the gold nugget decided to relocate to under the filer (about 1-2" gap between the filter and the gravel). The gold nugget is still there now, happy as anything with it's new home. I have seen my Panaque Maccus in there a couple of times... So much for building a nice cave for it...

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Mats

biomechmonster · Post by **biomechmonster** » 07 Apr 2005, 19:16

Yup I've seen that with my smaller plecos...what can you do huh?

The caves will be for larger plecs though (full grown gibbies) and there will be no hiding spots large enough to accomodate a 16" gibby in the tank otherwise.

Even if they don't use the pipes for whatever reason..I'm sure the cichlids will be happy to lay eggs in them!