Sterbai breeding question

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 09 Mar 2007, 15:27

apistomaster wrote:Hi Andrew,
I just received ten adult Corydoras weitzmanni within the past week so I haven't had them spawn.
I do breed Corydoras on a small commercial scale.
This season about 1000 Corydoras sterbai.

I can think of several reasons why they haven't spawned.
Wild Corydoras and even some tank raised species as C. sterbai tend to spawn more readily going into the winter in the Northern Hemisphere. This corresponds to the rainy season in Peru when most Corys spawn.

They sound a little young to have ripened at the best time to try to spawn them this season.

They are much less likely to spawn in the presence of the other fish.

Even if they have or do spawn, the chances of finding any eggs are remote in the presence of caviar loving Hypancistrus species.

Give them their own set up, lots of live worms, all the recommended triggers and maybe you will be blessed with a spawn.

Even though my Cory. sterbai are several generations removed from the wild I have not had any spawns from May until October nor has my best friend in town.

I am not going to say they cannot be breed out of season. I am only sharing what we have experenced at approximately the 47TH parallel North in the PNW of the USA.

First, Andrew I don't mean to hijack your thread but I have something to say Larry I hope you don't mind(thought about PM but I don't know him and I figure it could be inposing)

Anyway, you just had to burst my bubbles Larry, didn't you?

After all the waiting from last November watch them grow, my 5 young Sterbais start making some eggs this week Finally. You just had to tell me that I only got another 2 months of spawning from them. Most likely?

Especially we live in the same State. Heck, who knows I might have the young Sterbai who bred by you. Although they didn't look like they were 7~12 months old(that would be caluculate from the November ~ April season you mentioned) when I got them. They were about 3/4"~1" TL at most in last November. And they are finally about 1 3/4"~2" TL at most right now. And they just start to show the body shape and size difference in sexes. And it seems I have 3 females and 2 males although 3rd female is not certain.
They layed eggs 3 times this week(Sunday, Tuesday and Tursday. Although it was only 15~20 each, I was pretty excited.

So how many Sterbais do you have to produce 1000 youngs? And how many eggs did you get from this season? What is the hatch rate and how many frys usually make it to young that you sell them? And how long do they usually takes to grow to your selling size? And what do you feed the frys?

Sorry about all the questions but I was surprised to see the eggs are so small. Maybe because they are young. Although I only have bred Pandas and they are sure bigger and the wigglers are obviously bigger. Anyway, thanks for the help if you decide to take time to answer my newbie questions.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 09 Mar 2007, 15:44

I split this off to a separate thread - it will probably help keep the C. weitzmani thread clean, and also perhaps Sterbai breeders who don't care about C. weitzmani may read this thread.

--
Mats

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 09 Mar 2007, 17:35

Neon,
I will try to answer your questions but in truth I don't know what's up with Corydors sterbai except many things don't add up.
Let me explain: Read a How to Breed Corydoras sterbai article. Nice read, nothing to it. Right?
I raised ~1000 fish to saleable size from about ~8000 eggs laid. Now if they were so easy and 90% lived, the Asian fish farms would have flooded us with enough Cory sterbai that they would retail for $4.00 each instead of $10.00 or $15.00each.
If most everyone is only raising 15% of the total spawned eggs you get that higher price.
That is my interpretation of the facts of the market place and the practical experience I have breeding them.
I am OK with that because I raise fish for money with a few exceptions. I also raise discus but I cannot profit from them against the cheap Asian farmed discus. I just like discus and was the first in Eastern Washington to breed and raise discus from wild caught fish that I am aware of. So they are a labor of love.(Since 1968)
I tried absolutely every thing I know to improve my production with fewer spawns but I have not found any rhyme or reason behind why one batch will do well and most fizzle. I use 5 females and 9 males. They are two year olds but they spawn at about one year old.
Seasonality: You may have differnt results as you only have two seasons; 10.5 months of rain ~80 inches/year and 1.5 months of Summer where you might hit 90 dF one day out of the year.

Eastern Washington: We have 4 seasons Spring, summer, Fall, and Winter. Summer 100 to 118dF for 3months
Rainfall less than 18 inches. Sunshine mostof the time.
I am disabled by an accidental spine injury so I moved back home after 30 years living in Metro Sealle area. The constant storms coming through hurt my bones too much. Besides the flyfishing is much better here and we don't have too many people to share it with.

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 09 Mar 2007, 18:53

MatsP,
I'm sorry about that and thank you for your help moving this to new thread.

Larry,
Thanks for the answers. It sounds like your area have more high and low temperature than around here. So I may have longer season, who knows. Like I said, my group just start so we shall see. How ong they continue to make eggs as such. I know they are still young parents and they can grow up themself more also. At least, I am happy that the eggs were viable that I got few wigglers.
Hopefully, I can grow some to 1/2" and bigger and I'm sure I can feel much better.
And hopefully I can have many good news in the future. I'll catch you later.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 09 Mar 2007, 19:29

Neoncory,
It's between hatching and 1/2 inch that problems if any happens. Once they are a 1/2 inch long they are pretty easy and quick to finish growing up.

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 10 Mar 2007, 05:37

Ah just like any other Corys. They always give you troubles when they are tiny.
I guess the tiny frys can be just fragile. That is just maybe why the some of the fish lay so many eggs. They just need to play number game with Mother Nature.
I hate to think or say about this but I do need to cull the weak frys. So only the strong fish continue the line of the species.
Because I know when we breed them, we could end up some weak frys which would never survived in the Nature.

I am sorry this is not happy topic but I just need to think about. But I figure this have to be done to maintain the quality of the fish if you breed.

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 10 Mar 2007, 15:59

I don't think that seasons could so markedly influence the spawning behaviour of Corydoras sterbai. In my fishhouse they spawn both in summer and winter. The spawning period usually lasts 3-4 months and if they are well fed, they start to spawn spontaneously after another 5 months.

And what about the difficulties during raising, I can say that I got 1 piece of fry out of my first 100 Sterbai. It lasted 4 years until I developed a safe "raising system" and until I learned to avoid all potential threats to the fry. Now, if everything goes normally, I lose 1-2% fry a month, which means 2-4 pieces out of 200. The loses are usually due to accidental overfeeding, which, unfortunately, can't be avoided.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 10 Mar 2007, 17:51

Hi Cartouche,
I think I was careful to not say anything except what my own experiences have been with Corydoras sterbai. I have had some near total successs, some wipe oust and mostly some with low survival rates.

In no way have I tried to imply that this is a record that can't be improved upon nor that Sterbai can't spawn when ever they are in the mood.

What seemes seasonal to me may be coincidental considering the long breaks you have experienced and may have nothing to do with seasons.

I thought my most objective and relevant observations are that given the, ease and fecundity of these fish, I find it strange that in the intensely competitive commercial farms of SE Asia and all their vauanted skills and low overhead, that the prices of sterbai have remained remarkabley stable and high for an easily bred fish over the years.
That seems to me to be a good indicator than taken as a whole, the worldwide breeding efforts, it is unsusual for fish to hold their value long unless something causes supply to be barely meeting demand.

I wasn't pleased with my low yields from so many spawns and I will continue to try to improve it.
I was just surprised at the results I have had and how few clues seem to emerge from my experiments that are showing a good correlation to a given method I among all those I tried. I did after all, at least raise approximately 1000 sterbai to saleable size.
Based on the size and frequency of the spawns I would have expected more fish from fewer spawns.

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 10 Mar 2007, 18:11

cartouche wrote:I don't think that seasons could so markedly influence the spawning behaviour of Corydoras sterbai. In my fishhouse they spawn both in summer and winter. The spawning period usually lasts 3-4 months and if they are well fed, they start to spawn spontaneously after another 5 months.

And what about the difficulties during raising, I can say that I got 1 piece of fry out of my first 100 Sterbai. It lasted 4 years until I developed a safe "raising system" and until I learned to avoid all potential threats to the fry. Now, if everything goes normally, I lose 1-2% fry a month, which means 2-4 pieces out of 200. The loses are usually due to accidental overfeeding, which, unfortunately, can't be avoided.

Hi Cartouche,
I think apistomaster(Larry)'s case, his area have such a temperature difference between the season during the year that affect the spawning season also. And, I'm sure all the temperature, atmosphere what not affect their spawn season. So it must be different where the fish were kept. I can't say how is gonna be the case for me that I just start to get some eggs since Sunday. I am getting some this morning also BTW.

And first batch just absove their egg sack and just start feeding yesterday. But I am appreciate the any experience from the person who bred Sterbais, you and apistomaster.

It would be great if you can share with your successful safe raising system. Like tank setup and water parameter if you don't mind sharing with rest of us. I'm sure all of us would like to grow as many Sterbai as possible. Although I would not intend to introduce the weaker to public nor breeding line. Your system may give more healthy frys. They must be since so many make to the safe size. I'm looking forward to see or read your set up. Thanks.

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 11 Mar 2007, 01:31

Dear "Neoncory" and "Apistomaster",
I think the problem with Sterbai is that they are fairly easy to breed, but much more difficult to raise. Here in Czech republic, I don't know many people, who would breed Sterbai massly. Usually, you will see ca. 300 pieces a week in the offer in the wholesale, much less a number than e.g. 10 000 paleatus, aeneus or panda. They are very difficult fish for mass breeders, because they need big care. I know one experienced Corydoras-breeder, who just started to breed them, and he reports ca. 75% loses. No wonder that many people can't stand such beginnings and simply fall-off. You will be probably surprised, but many Czech shops depend on the import of Sterbai from South Asia, because they have no own Czech suppliers. I am actually alone here in South Moravia, so I have a price monopoly and I am still cheaper than the South Asian import

Basically, during the first days you must avoid pollution of the water. I usually hatch the fry in a small container, with the density of 50 pieces/5 Liter water. I start feeding with live artemia 3,5-4 days since hatching and change 80% water twice daily. All uneaten remains must be removed. If the number of fry is small (below 20-30 pieces), feeding with live artemia must be very careful, because too many artemia thrown into the container can lead to overfeeding. Artemia mustn't be also combined with any other food, because it leads to the same result. A good alternative can be decapsulated artemia, but one must at first check, if the fry eat it. And, of course, the demands on the cleanness of the tank are higher. I have no experience with microworms.

After ca. 14 days, the above mentioned density of fry is no longer sustainable and the fish must be removed into a bigger tank. The tank mustn't be too large (otherwise the fry won't find food) and must be already established for 2-3 weeks, with working bacteria cultures in the filter sponge. I always wondered, why I lose fry after removing them into a bigger tank, despite almost neurotic attempts to keep the tank clean. The mystery was solved, after I bought a NO2-kit and started to measure water chemistry. The NO2 concentrations can rise up to 0,30 mg NO2/L during the first 2 weeks! However, loses occur only if NO2 concentration gets close to 0,25 mg/L. In this bigger tank, you can still feed with live artemia, and when the fry are too big, you can use decapsulated artemia, finely chopped bloodworms, daphnia, cyclops, grated beef heart. I never use tubifex - as many other Czech breeders do. The Sterbai are namely extremely sensitive to diseases - in fact, they seem to have almost no immunity, when they are young. You must even use plankton from safe sources, because even in frozen plankton, there can survive some resistant spora, with which the little fry can be easily infected. I also avoid all sorts of commercial flours or granules, because they contain a highly concentrated protein, and the uneaten remains are thus a very rich source for the breeding of dangerous Flavobacteria that cause the inflammation of Corydoras-gills. Some flours can also cause heavy swelling.

Before every feeding, I turn the filter on in full output for several hours, which removes all unaten remains from the bottom. I also wash the filter sponge every 1,5 day. With this procedure, loses should be almost zero. However, from time to time, some pieces die, because they eat too much food and will strangle with it. They usually heavily breathe at the surface, and the next day hang there dead, with the belly upward. It usually follows the feeding with bloodworms, but it occurs virtually after every food. Many times I tried to avoid it, but with no definitive success. So I gave it up and I resigned to that I wouldn't have 0% loses

(Well, I didn't experience it after feeding with tubifex or with some granulas, but they have other disadvantages.)

My fry reach 3 cm after ca. 5 months. Some breeders report that their Sterbai can be sold after mere 3-3,5 months, but this is probably due to feeding with tubifex and frequent daily water changes that stimulate fish metabolism. Since I change 80% water every 5 days, this is not my case.

I must also add that with this "safe system", when a high percentage of fish survive, I get some percentage of degenerated or simply ugly fry. Certainly, they are not useful for breeding, so I either kill them or give them to my customers for free

But I must also say that these degenerated fish are not always the least sturdy; in fact, if some things don't go "normally", I lose many "good" fish, but these miseries often survive.

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 11 Mar 2007, 05:41

Hi cartouche,

Thanks for the sharing your experience and knowledge with us. I really appreciate that you took time to type.
I just have my first batch big enough to be fed and 2nd batch absorbing the egg sack and 3rd is ready to hatch tomorrow night to Monday morning and got 4th batch this morning. I don't find more than 15~20 at this moment since I'm pretty sure the 1 female is laying eggs. And my group is still young just grew up enough to start produce eggs last Sunday. They are about 2"(5 cm)TL. But the eggs seems almost 100% vial. So my male is doing good job. And I start feeding them with walterworms(which supposed to be small version of microworms) and they seems ok with it. Hopefully I can keep them well.
I will be careful not to overfeed and keep the water quality up. Since that is the tips from you. And it sounds like the key to the successful raising Sterbai frys.
Thanks for the tips I will keep them in my mind while I raise them. I will keep up with update.

I collected 18 more eggs this afternoon.

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 11 Mar 2007, 14:37

Well, now I would need some advice from you.

My Sterbai just started a new spawning period one month ago and all the eggs gradually turn white and then rapidly fungus shortly before hatching. I have lost more than 500 eggs already, whatever I do with them. Methylene blue doesn't help, lower concentration of eggs doesn't help, changing the chemistry and the sort of water doesn't help, removing the dead eggs doesn't help. Nothing helps. I have raised about 10 pieces of fry so far. I have never experienced something like this since I started to breed Sterbai 4,5 years ago. And it seems that the same happens with the eggs of Barbatus. But not with the eggs of duplicareus, napoensis and, to my surprise, even not with the eggs of trilineatus, with which I had big problems around Christmas (But with these species I have different problems, which I explained in another thread).

One breeder suggested that if eggs turn white and subsequently fungus, it is due to anaerobic bacteria in the water. However, in the past I experienced it only with the eggs of duplicareus, and if I noticed it in the eggs of sterbai, it was only if I placed too many eggs into too small a container (something like 70 eggs/1,5 Liter). But now duplicareus hatch and sterbai don't...

Accidentaly I just noticed that 8 eggs placed in a small 1,5 liter container surprisingly survived and hatched, even without an air stone. But I can't imagine, how many small containers I would need to buy, when my sterbai can produce as much as 360 eggs from one spawning.

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 11 Mar 2007, 16:57

I don't know how much of the help I can give you that I only kept my Sterbai from last November and only getting eggs since last Sunday. And there are only less than 20. However, I can post you how I am doing so far.
First spawn I actually got around 25 but I lost most because I put them in the spawning net and got wash away. But the 3 eggs I got left hatched and absorbed egg sacks and taking walterworms it seems. I can see them color up a bit and see some peppery(black and white) color. I kept them in those little throw away plastic cup you use for beer at the party. attach to the rim of the parents tank with cloth pin and stick the airtube from the air pump. I didn't add any fungercide.
2nd spawn I got 5 out of 16~18 eggs hatched and just about need to be fed, they are in the same cup as 1st spawn.
3rd spawn and 4th is in another cup. And 3rd eggs coloring up and I am expecting to hatch tonight tomorrow morning. 4th is still another 2 days away.
So far I got each batch 2 days apart. I got them Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.
I am keeping the tank at 82F and ph is around 6.8~6.9 last time I checked. Which was first time I got eggs. I don't have test for the GH. And I have little peat bag in the small HOB. I also have the powerhead with sponge attachment. I also have few drift/bogwood so I'm sure some tanning is release to the water. I see the water little weak tea color.
So far it takes about 2 1/2 days to hatch. And I fed little infusioa water and walterworms 2 or 3 times a day. I change almost 80% water each time before I feed them. I am not worry about such a big water change because the water parameter should be same since I use the water from the parents tank and the cup is at the top of the tank.
I did tossed in little cramp of Java/X'mas Moss in the first cup after they start free-swimming. Also 1 small Ramshorn snail. 2nd cup I change water once since they are not hatched yet and I am changing the first cup anyway.
Oh, my tap is around 7ph and I use these to change the parents tank, I just use the dechlorine and try to make little cooler water. I probably change 50% once a week. They are in 10G. So I would imagine ph go up a little like 0.5 and temperature drop few after each water change.
I don't know so far I only got small 2 batch of eggs hatched and the frys are not even week old. So it is too early to say what works and what not. But 3rd batch I expect, almost all to hatch judging by the darker color. I will let you know how it go.
I am not 100% sure but I think little tanning maybe helping the Sterbai both adults and eggs. Although 2 nd batch didn't hatched well but I think those maybe came from different female than 1st or 3rd batch, or maybe different male participate. After all they are barely sexually matured. I wish I did put the 1st batch in the cup and not in the net. I was surprised the eggs are smaller than Pandas.
Like I mentioned I don't use any fungacide. But I am pretty sure tanning is discouraging the fungus.
But nothing is scientifically backed up nor enough data to say anything. I just list what I did and how it is going.
I will catch you later.
I hope you can figure out and improve your hatching. Good luck.

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 11 Mar 2007, 23:31

NEONCORY wrote:I don't know how much of the help I can give you that I only kept my Sterbai from last November and only getting eggs since last Sunday. And there are only less than 20. However, I can post you how I am doing so far.
First spawn I actually got around 25 but I lost most because I put them in the spawning net and got wash away. But the 3 eggs I got left hatched and absorbed egg sacks and taking walterworms it seems. I can see them color up a bit and see some peppery(black and white) color. I kept them in those little throw away plastic cup you use for beer at the party. attach to the rim of the parents tank with cloth pin and stick the airtube from the air pump. I didn't add any fungercide.
2nd spawn I got 5 out of 16~18 eggs hatched and just about need to be fed, they are in the same cup as 1st spawn.
3rd spawn and 4th is in another cup. And 3rd eggs coloring up and I am expecting to hatch tonight tomorrow morning. 4th is still another 2 days away.
So far I got each batch 2 days apart. I got them Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.
I am keeping the tank at 82F and ph is around 6.8~6.9 last time I checked. Which was first time I got eggs. I don't have test for the GH. And I have little peat bag in the small HOB. I also have the powerhead with sponge attachment. I also have few drift/bogwood so I'm sure some tanning is release to the water. I see the water little weak tea color.
So far it takes about 2 1/2 days to hatch. And I fed little infusioa water and walterworms 2 or 3 times a day. I change almost 80% water each time before I feed them. I am not worry about such a big water change because the water parameter should be same since I use the water from the parents tank and the cup is at the top of the tank.
I did tossed in little cramp of Java/X'mas Moss in the first cup after they start free-swimming. Also 1 small Ramshorn snail. 2nd cup I change water once since they are not hatched yet and I am changing the first cup anyway.
Oh, my tap is around 7ph and I use these to change the parents tank, I just use the dechlorine and try to make little cooler water. I probably change 50% once a week. They are in 10G. So I would imagine ph go up a little like 0.5 and temperature drop few after each water change.
I don't know so far I only got small 2 batch of eggs hatched and the frys are not even week old. So it is too early to say what works and what not. But 3rd batch I expect, almost all to hatch judging by the darker color. I will let you know how it go.
I am not 100% sure but I think little tanning maybe helping the Sterbai both adults and eggs. Although 2 nd batch didn't hatched well but I think those maybe came from different female than 1st or 3rd batch, or maybe different male participate. After all they are barely sexually matured. I wish I did put the 1st batch in the cup and not in the net. I was surprised the eggs are smaller than Pandas.
Like I mentioned I don't use any fungacide. But I am pretty sure tanning is discouraging the fungus.
But nothing is scientifically backed up nor enough data to say anything. I just list what I did and how it is going.
I will catch you later.
I hope you can figure out and improve your hatching. Good luck.

You must have quite young fish, when they produce only few eggs. I can normally get more than 300 eggs a month from three adult females. I wouldn't place the fry in the tank with adults, because it is less safe, but if you have only few pieces of fry, it can be economical. Little Sterbai are not sensitive to changes of water chemistry - if they are not extreme, of course. The eggs are also not demanding; they hatch both in soft and semi-hard water, both acidic and alkalic. As for tansuffs, I experimented with tansuffs extracts, when I had problems with duplicareus eggs. It didn't help and if I elevated the dose, all eggs turned white. I also tried acriflavine, but it's a weak thing. I eventually succeeded with methylene blue. It still works in duplicareus eggs, but it doesn't work now in sterbai, at least not so efficiently.

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 12 Mar 2007, 03:02

Some reason the male convinced the female this late morning after the blunch. I was planning to do the water change anyway, so look for the eggs while doing the water change this evening. I only found 5. 2 in the Java moss and 3 on the glass.
I guess they did it quickie whatever the reason is. Maybe because the rainy weather this morning. Now I am curious if I get any eggs tomorrow. That would be 3 days in a row but I did the 50% water change. And I remember they did spawn 1st time, the morning after the day I did water change(last Saturday).

cartouche,
Yeah, I probably raise frys with parents since that is how I do with Pandas. Although I probably raise them 2~3 weeks or so before let them reuniite. And probably need to create more hiding spot for the frys.
I probably have to move them to another tank soon anyway. Because I don't like the looks of the caulk of the tank.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 12 Mar 2007, 14:07

NEONCORY wrote:MatsP,
I'm sorry about that and thank you for your help moving this to new thread.

No worries. It's not very hard to split thread (as long as you split early enough - if there's two threads intertwined where every other post is a different thread, it gets a bit hard because the mod has to click on each post that is to be a new thread, but in the "simple case", it's just a couple of clicks of the mouse and a bit of typing for the new subject). And keeping threads clean makes life a whole lot easier for everyone.

--
Mats

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 12 Mar 2007, 14:33

NEONCORY wrote:Some reason the male convinced the female this late morning after the blunch. I was planning to do the water change anyway, so look for the eggs while doing the water change this evening. I only found 5. 2 in the Java moss and 3 on the glass.
I guess they did it quickie whatever the reason is. Maybe because the rainy weather this morning. Now I am curious if I get any eggs tomorrow. That would be 3 days in a row but I did the 50% water change. And I remember they did spawn 1st time, the morning after the day I did water change(last Saturday).

cartouche,
Yeah, I probably raise frys with parents since that is how I do with Pandas. Although I probably raise them 2~3 weeks or so before let them reuniite. And probably need to create more hiding spot for the frys.
I probably have to move them to another tank soon anyway. Because I don't like the looks of the caulk of the tank.

I collected 151 sterbai eggs yeasterday. I don't know, if I should be happy or if I should have sleepless nights now. If it again fungus, my financial situation will be very serious.

I think that placing freshly hatched fry in a tank with adults - albeit in a separate container - is too risky. NO2 is usually no problem, but I would be afraid of NO3 and potentially dangerous microfauna - i.e. latent diseases present in adults or some bacteria.

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 13 Mar 2007, 01:53

You should always be happy when you get some eggs. Some may not hatch nor live long but you have at least some chance. Without eggs, there are no frys.
Beside they must be happy and healthy to lay eggs.
Anyway, good luck with your eggs.

I got more eggs today. 23 of them although 1 must be from another time since it was darker. I guess they really liked the new water. The female that layed eggs really prefer the spot near the surface and where the water current is good. I found almost all but 4 within the 1" from the surface. I found 4 on the leaves of Java Fern on driftwood near the surface, 16 on the glass near the current from powerhead outlet go through and 2 on the plastic of outlet. And 1 on the Frogbit(floating plant).
Now I am really wonder if any female lay some eggs.

P.S. My firstand 2nd batch is doing good. I still have 8 and they are salt and pepper. And about a dozen from 3rd batch working on the sack and 4th batch try to break eggs. And of course, 5th and 6th is working on their tans.

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 14 Mar 2007, 16:09

Unfortunately, I lost 3 frys, now have 5 from the first 2 batches.

However about 10 frys from next batch or 2. Also few start to hatch after that. And also have some eggs developing. And I may get more eggs today.
Anyway, I don't know the reason why I lost frys. Either some bacteria, overfed or simply wasn't fit. I don't know.
I just have to see if I can improve the situation somehow.

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 15 Mar 2007, 00:19

So after I lost few frys this morning. I gave little balls of whiteworms which I obtained from local aquarium society meeting last night, to the Sterbais. And it took little time for them to find but they enjoyed it. and few worms flew over when the cory ate and those were gladly picked by Diamond tetras.
And I knew they will lay some eggs after the breakfast.

I managed to collect 30+ eggs. It could be laid by 2 females although I am not certain.
There were 12 in the spawning mop another 7 in the Java moss and about 20 on...get this...she decide to stick them on small plastic(less than 1"x 1/2") piece from airflow controle knob from the powerhead. She put them on like 3 layer eggs on eggs like bunch of grapes. So I decide it is easier to put the plastic in the hatching container than try to remove eggs from it. And I can't even really count so I think it is about 20.
So it is a good thing that more eggs are keep coming.

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 16 Mar 2007, 23:09

I collected about 37 eggs but 5 are darker so I must missed from last batch. Found 27 on the leaves of Java Fern, 3 on the glass and 2 on the Java/Xmas moss. This female prefer natural plants.
It kind of funny that not always eggs are found at same place. So I am pretty sure that I am getting eggs from more than 1 female.

It is hard to see the dead fry but I lose 1 fry here, there. So I figure some frys are just not fit and strong enough to grow. I have about 12 frys that are about 1/4" TL but they are still skinny and look like todpoles. And have more than 50 eggs need to hatch. Once agai, some were not good enough to hatch that they will cover by fuzzy fungus. But most of them turn darker and hatch.
Now question is when I should move them to bigger home but small tank. Right now, they are still in the small container with airtube only. Although, I do change water each time before I feed them.
I probably move them to 2~3 G tank/container with sponge filter which I should get from another tank after do some shuffling things around. I just have to make sure the water quality stay high but they still be able to find enough food to grow. Of course, I also need to find the small but reliable heater.
I would be happy if I can manage half the eggs to adult marking, that would be good. Still long way to go. But you have to start somewhere, I guess. This ain't bad, considering I just got them last November and didn't had single eggs until 10~12 days ago.

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 19 Mar 2007, 02:50

Found ~46~ eggs(12 on top corner on the glass, 6 in the spawning mop, 2 on the leaf of Anubias and 26 on the leaves of Java Ferns)
So while looking for the eggs all over the place, I did some water change also.
Since it was pretty good number of eggs, I put in the own container and split the airline. Not to mention last 2 batches didn't turned out good. There were too many eggs fungused, unfortunately.
But they should be ok since I see the eggs already colored to little tan, we'll see.
Well, at least they are still making eggs and it seems number of eggs are increasing. Although I still have no idea how many females are laying eggs. Are they taking turns, I really don't know.
Let's just say, they are doing good try to ensure the survival of their specie.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 19 Mar 2007, 20:59

There must be Spring in the air because all the Corydoras seem to be spawning except for some very recent arrivals. I have enough Corydoras sterbai to carry me through the summer so I have stopped saving their spawns but they still are at it. Then in the past week, two of more species laid eggs, C-121 and C.duplicareous.

I am really just a beginner when it comes to breeding Corydoras except aeneus and paleatus, which I have raised before.
I can see I still have a ways to go before I can feel like I know what I'm doing. The same hatching and newly hatched losses are still a problem. This is also a challenge to meet and is part of one's growth as an aquarist.

I think this is just about the way it goes whenever and whatever new species are tried. Sooner or later if we stick with it I'm sure the results will improve.

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 20 Mar 2007, 15:10

NEONCORY wrote:Found ~46~ eggs(12 on top corner on the glass, 6 in the spawning mop, 2 on the leaf of Anubias and 26 on the leaves of Java Ferns)
So while looking for the eggs all over the place, I did some water change also.
Since it was pretty good number of eggs, I put in the own container and split the airline. Not to mention last 2 batches didn't turned out good. There were too many eggs fungused, unfortunately.
But they should be ok since I see the eggs already colored to little tan, we'll see.
Well, at least they are still making eggs and it seems number of eggs are increasing. Although I still have no idea how many females are laying eggs. Are they taking turns, I really don't know.
Let's just say, they are doing good try to ensure the survival of their specie.

If the eggs fungus, I would lower their density in the hatching container. And, of course, all eggs that turn white must be removed immediately. A drop of methylene blue is also good (but beware of overdosing!).

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 20 Mar 2007, 16:55

Yes Larry, the spring is in the air(water) indeed. I now got the eggs from C.Melanotanea which was kind of surprise that they made eggs on the next day I got them from other local hobbiest. That was surprise, the pleasent one.
Of course, I have to study and figure out what would work for me since this was the first time I kept the specie. Same goes Sterbai that I am still new to raise those little frys from them.

cartouche,
Thanks for the tip. Although I don't think I would use fungucide just yet since the first batch hatched without fungus problem. But I would definately, try to lower the density in the hatching container. And increase the water change. I appreciate your experienced input and help. Thank you.

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 20 Mar 2007, 23:11

I just collected 50+ eggs although 2 were darker and I think I missed them last time.
I found 4 on the front corner of the glass, 12 in the spawning mop, 13 in the Java Moss, 22 on the leaves of Java Fern and 3 more on the tip of Anubias leaf. Now I wonder if I got these from 1 female or 2 females. I didn't look closely this morning. I knew the male was chasing but just let them be.
So I put in the small container and pinned at the top edge of the tank and stuck the airhose. They shoule hatch Thursday/Friday.
Now I better think about where I'm gonna move them to grow out that earlier frys are about 2 weeks, I think.
Maybe 1 1/2~2G container since there are only a dozen or so. I just have to make sure it is not too big nor too small.

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 20 Mar 2007, 23:13

I just collected 50+ eggs although 2 were darker and I think I missed them last time.
I found 4 on the front corner of the glass, 12 in the spawning mop, 13 in the Java Moss, 22 on the leaves of Java Fern and 3 more on the tip of Anubias leaf. Now I wonder if I got these from 1 female or 2 females. I didn't look closely this morning. I knew the male was chasing but just let them be.
So I put in the small container and pinned at the top edge of the tank and stuck the airhose. They shoule hatch Thursday/Friday.
Now I better think about where I'm gonna move them to grow out that earlier frys are about 2 weeks, I think.
Maybe 1 1/2~2G container since there are only a dozen or so. I just have to make sure it is not too big nor too small.

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 21 Mar 2007, 06:53

You know, these fish sometime surprise you. I was just feeding some walterworms(like microworms) to the hard working adult Sterbais. I saw this little todpole hopping and riding on the current of water. And it was not just 1 but I saw 2 at the same time. They were about the size of the surviving fry from the first batch. As I recall, I lost most of the eggs because I tried to hold them in the mesh breeding net. I guess some did hatch and took care of him/herself to be about 2 weeks old.
I thought about it what is the best thing to do. I don't think I can catch them without emptying the tank water of 70~80%. And there are no other hungry fish but their parents and 2 pleco like colored otos. But I do not want them to be consumed by the parents by mistake. The best thing I can do to increase their chance to keep surviving, I will put more shelters for them. Some stone which sit without much gap so only the frys can get under.
I hope they will survive and I can see them in month or 2 which time they should be big enough. They do not have to worry about the mouth of the parents.
But they still need to survive few major water changes with the vaccuming. That remind me that I better look twice before throw any water out of the tank.
Also this gave me an idea. I might just put the divider at the few inches from the end of the tank and make a nursery. Instead of growing them in the small tank. I'm sure the parents wouldn't mind the few inches less room for the kids. And they don't mind finish the left over from the kids.
Yeah, I really think it is worth the try.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 21 Mar 2007, 16:04

Little sneaker survivors from a previous spawn are pretty common. I just leave them alone since they are proven survivors, perhaps netting them out after they get some size to them.

Not 100% safe but I cover the end of my siphon intakes with nylon flyscreen and control the flow by crimping the hose when working in my fry tanks. It does help prevent accidental sucking up the fry if done cautiously.

I am experiencing a surprising (to me) number of Cory spawns at this time. I really just started to seriously trying to breed Corys this past year so I still am learning and being surprised by them.

NEONCORY · Post by **NEONCORY** » 22 Mar 2007, 15:56

Larry(apistomaster),

Thanks for the tip. I will cover the vaccume with mesh/net when I do.
And about the little survivor, I will catch them when I change the tank. It seems the tank seams that they are in became weaker over the time unfortunately. Because I see the silicons have this bubbling looks and I suspect over the time the acidic water just ate the silicone. Anyway, better to be safe than sorry and I sure don't want 10 G of water on the floor. So I need to get the tank going soon and transfer them all to new tank.
Hopefully, their breeding schedule doesn't change.
I did feed some whiteworm this morning and females enjoyed it while male were more busy try to place himself in front of females.

They like sex more than food.

I'm pretty sure the female(s) will let him do it after she ate enough food if not all the food. So I will most likely look for the eggs this evening.