Jaundiced Paleatus

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 21 Mar 2007, 08:36

Has anyone here had any experience with jaundice in a cory? If so, what caused it and were you able to treat it? Last night I had put my two new peppered cories into the 3 gallon hospital tank and very soon I had noticed that the one I'd presumed "healthy" had turned yellow and has stayed that way. I can't say if she or he was yellow before--I had trouble with the light in that 29 gallon quarantine tank being too intense (bulb seems to have started to go bad) and making the fish shy so I was using a room lamp to light the tank indirectly--not easy to tell colors off of that light. I just know they both were kind of pale and ugly when I got them, and being a bit mature, had probably been through a lot. I do think this one paleatus had probably started out a tad on the amber side. And no, it's not velvet, assuming I understand velvet correctly. This color emanates from within and isn't some surface sheen. In the fish, not on the fish, in other words. I do have a very healthy paleatus in my main tank, so I know what a healthy one is supposed to look like, and these guys ain't matching up.

They started coloring up nicely in my 29 gallon quarantine tank, but then one showed pop-eye (now in both eyes but not severe looking, it's just very slightly protuding on both). And the other's yellow. They both are eating well and playing in the little bit of current from their filter. They were skittish and sedentary in there at first, but I put in two small fake plants and some food and that settled them down pretty well. I refresh their water frequently and now they do have some bacteria in there I took from the other tanks. The tank is supposed to have a bio-wheel in it, but to save money I filled it with floss and some ceramic noodles instead.

That tank had no biological filter established in it at first, so I had used Amquel Plus to dechlorinate their first batch of water. I don't know if that is pertinent but I mention it in case it rings a bell with anyone. I've never used AmQuel before--I mainly use Prime or Stress Coat.

I tried to look up jaundice in fish and I did find out it is rare but can happen and has something to do with "severe oxidative stress." I wasn't able to find out what that means for fish--I only gleaned the barest understanding that hydrogen peroxide can trigger it--and I may be mistaken on that. I was kind of speed reading all the abstracts I came across because as a mom, my spare time for reading is limited. Recently I did treat all the fish in the quarantine tank with Jungle Buddy anti-parasite tablets. That stuff fizzes. I don't know if that is from peroxide or not.

Water parameters in the hospital tank...I don't know. I am constantly refreshing part of the water, now with StressCoat again, and that tank lid on the Eclipse is a nightmare to work with so getting water samples would stress me and the fish out. It was hard enough rigging a way to "sneak" water in and out so as to not keep putting them in a tizzy.

Sorry this post is so long. I don't really expect anyone to be able to help me. But I figure it was worth a shot to see if anyone else has had yellowed fish. I have seen a couple of my cories turn yellow before, but it was either shortly before death or in the case of one albino cory--it went away. But that cory did later die.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 21 Mar 2007, 15:26

Hi hellocatfish,
I would seriously consider starting over with your paleatus. These two have not been well from the first and mysterious problems are rarely resolved with the fish experiencing them. Try them all over again only this time you will have established stable conditions.
Try a new source for your fish and just euthanize these two. They are not a rare endangered species.
Sometimes it is the kindest thing to do rather than to go to heroics in an effort to save a fish you may actually be prolonging their misery.

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 21 Mar 2007, 17:29

I totally agree, but I've never euthanized a fish when they were still so active and normal acting before--not even ones I've caught and eaten--left that to my fishing buddies, who I think just iced them anyway. So it's something I would have to work myself up to do. No way would my husband do it, he is even more softhearted and squeamish for animals' sakes than I am.

They are well adjusted to the tank now and it's not hard to keep them going in there now that I sneak in the Biorb bulb siphon and supply a slow feed of replacement water with a raised bucket and another tube. They don't panic now. Meanwhile bacteria is building up on their floss. I could just wait and see. If they get healthy again (doubtful) I will return them to the LFS. If not, I'll do what needs to be done but I have to work myself up to that.

All my other fish look great so far.

I only got these paleatus because I had one already and I thought he ought to have more of his own kind...but I'm reconsidering that now. He doesn't seem to suffer for lack of his own kind and is one of the most brilliantly colored examples of his species I have seen either in person or in pictures. To be honest my cories are all more relaxed and happy now that those two are away from them. These paleatus were just too large and rambunctious and aggressive and were terrorizing the sterba. Their behavior alone was enough to make me want to be rid of them.

I think I want to be finished and done with the quarantine and tear down the tank. So I will not be restocking to make up for either the aeneus losses or these paleatus. It would just prolong how long I need to keep the 29 gallon up. And even though I think I have enough capacity for as many as 6 additional cories to the bio-load...why push it?

I have a danio in the main tank who doesn't look quite right--spine is starting to curve-- and I am going to euthanize that one. I think I'm done with danios, too. They get so nasty however, when not kept in a shoal of at least 10--so if I find they need to be replenished in order to avoid a constant betta-type battle in the tank--I'm ridding myself of the whole lot of them. They are fun to watch but I'd rather devote biocapacity to fish my passion is with. While most of the cories have only endeared me, these fish have turned me off to their species over time. I've had cichlids who were less quarrelsome than these guys.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 21 Mar 2007, 18:05

Hi hellocatfish,

I really do understand your position about peremptory
euthanization.

After raising all kinds of tropical fish over a 40 year career I know I have become inured to the task. I have those occassions with somethiing rare and difficult to replace fish where I too try to go the extra distance to save them. And I get no pleasure from putting fish down.
Culling, for a variety of reasons becomes a necessary evil when raising many fish but with only limited space available and I don't become very emotionally involved with my fish. I take a colder approach than many are comfortable with.

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 21 Mar 2007, 19:20

apistomaster wrote: Culling, for a variety of reasons becomes a necessary evil when raising many fish but with only limited space available and I don't become very emotionally involved with my fish. I take a colder approach than many are comfortable with.

Thank you for expressing my views. Reading them, I thik the cause for a cold approach tio fishes might very well be the amount of fishes one has.

I got some 600 fishes at home, and only a few (amongst them my 19 year old gibbiceps) I did get attached to.

The others I give a good life, and if they get sick, a humane dead

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 21 Mar 2007, 20:17

Hi Bas pels,

The euthaizing of defective or sick fish without feeling emotional does, I think, relate very much to how many fish one has and especially those of us who breed many fish inevitably are faced with some defective fish that should not be bred or passed on to others.

I know I used the word cold but I might have just as well said practical. I have a great deal of interest and care for my aquatic animals but I do not equate to them traits they do not have. They don't form bonds with their keeper like dogs and cats. We also know that in the wild only enough young of the year ever survive than is necessary for the continuation of the species. Only a couple per cent ever survive to reproduce. In captivity the keeper is the final arbiter of what is in the best interest of the fishes we breed and our ability to keep them in good health within the confines of the aquariums in our fishrooms.

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 22 Mar 2007, 08:59

I'm not of the view that it's a "cold" thing to do. Resources are not unlimited for any of us and in the bigger picture it's a greater kindness to alot them to the animals who will truly benefit and create strong progeny who can go farther on fewer resources. I've learned that much helping my parents for the past 12 years deal with an abandoned cat problem in the park near their house.

Oh..about the fish...she or he is still kind of yellow but not as bad as before. They are both adjusting very well to their small quarters and are playing among the silk plants and getting some irridesence back to their color--oh and eating with great gusto as always. They still get skittish when they see me coming. That is to be expected.

I don't intend on keeping them in such a tiny tank indefinitely. I hope to make the 3 gallon into a betta tank for my daughter to enjoy. And tear down the 29 gallon when quarantine is finished. And then if these 2 paleatus continue on acting normally, I'll set up a 5 or 10 gallon for them next to the main tank so they can be in extended quarantine. The 3 gallon is just dreadful as a hospital tank. The hood is an idiotic design and when a fish does die in there, it's a pain to net out. It will be a far better betta tank, I think. Of course I will nuke the heck out of it for germs, before I attempt to keep a healthy fish in it.

The one with the suspected case of pop-eye looks good. The eyes are still slightly enlarged looking and protuberant, but not bad and not as bad as the ones on the fish I've seen on internet pictures. The protrusion has become bilateral now. So now I know it wasn't from injury.

I really do NOT expect them to make it past extended quarantine into the main tank. But at least I can say I gave them a fighting chance. Since they are pets, it is an option I can afford to extend to them. Especially if it will save my husband's opinion of me. When I tried to discuss the possibility of euthanizing these fish...he looked at me as if I'd teleported out of the room and the devil had come and taken my place instead.

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 30 Mar 2007, 08:04

They are both fine now. They got dosed one more time with Jungle Buddy meds, this time one that treats fungal infections and contains antibiotics as well. They actually were looking fine before the treatment but I did it just in case. They are back in with their tankmates, in glorious color, eyes looking fine on the one, the "jaundiced" one still a bit sepia but now looking more like the fish in the CatELog photos and not like a sick fish. They are as affectionate as ever but fortunately not crashing around like they did before. The panda cories seemed glad to have them back and went schooling with them. The sterba weren't too thrilled though. I consider the Sterba to be very sedate and dignified of all the cories I own. Not that that means a whole lot when it comes to cories. But comparatively speaking, they are sedate and dignified.

I lost ALL 3 of the Albino Aeneus that were in my quarantine tank, though. They had all had gill burn due to poor packing at the LFS. I had never really expected the third one to last as long as he did. I also lost one Panda--he was one who also had reddened gills when I took him out of the LFS's bag. And one of the Sterba has gone pale on me--this was before the peppers were returned to the tank so it is not the Peppers' fault.

Anyway, that's how it has worked out so far with the Paleatus. And I am keeping them. They're being good citizens so far. I think the spawning stuff was what made them so obnoxious. If I'm going to want to get rid of fish every time they are obnoxious in spawning, I should not be keeping fish at all. So, I'm chilling out!