sorubim lima: separation anxiety?

All posts regarding the care and breeding of these catfishes from South America.
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general-sherman
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sorubim lima: separation anxiety?

Post by general-sherman »

hi,
i'm considering buying a sorubim lima...my question is this: this fish has been kept with another lima since it was young (about 2-3yrs now), will it affect the fish to be separated from the other? i've seen this problem in cichlids like oscars but have never encountered it in catfish. i don't want to pay a large sum of money for a fish thats just going to pine away without its former friend/tankmate. will it accept some pimelodus ornatus as a substitute?
thanks :D
Meanwhile, Homer catches a legendary catfish, General Sherman, but to prove his love for Marge he throws it back in the lake...
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Post by pturley »

Holy Anthropomorphization batman!!!

Your fish will not suffer from any undue anxiety...


...nuff' said.

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Paul E. Turley

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...they're yummy!"


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Sid Guppy
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Post by Sid Guppy »

Why not get both?
as you already know; Sorubims are a bit of an exception as Big Pims; they DO like each others' company.

he will not die of being separated but he'll definitely be much more shy and reclusive without it's mate.
And an ornatus might be a bit too boisterous or territorial as a mate; Sorubims like things peaceful and quiet. They have very little aggression or territorial behaviour of themselves, unlike Pimelodus, Leiarus etc.
Plan B should not automatically be twice as much explosives as Plan A
general-sherman
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i can't get both

Post by general-sherman »

i can't get both because i don't have $1200, i only have $600.
Meanwhile, Homer catches a legendary catfish, General Sherman, but to prove his love for Marge he throws it back in the lake...
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Post by Caol_ila »

How much is aussie dollars?

As my tank is too small for mine but the 2 i have dont huddle all the time. most of the time they "wait" for pray in seperate corners head down under roots.

Funny that (i guess 600aus$ is expensive) the fish are so expensive. The problem fish seem very cheap here once returned to shops as almost noone would buy a 45 cm fish with a huge mouth. Same with big agressive plecos/synos
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Post by S. Allen »

current conversions from xe.com

$600 AUD= $396.933 USD
$600 AUD= $345.808 EUR
$600 AUD= 246.817 GBP

so yes, extremely expensive, but pims and fancy plecos in Oz appear to command insane prices where they're available... legally or otherwise.
general-sherman
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s. lima

Post by general-sherman »

sorubim lima is on the noxious list here, making them illegal to import, sell, posses, breed and any other thing you care to do with them. like i've explained to people SO many times: it has nothing to do with monentary conversion rates and everything to do with these fish having to be ILLEGALLY smuggled into the country. this pushes the price up a little bit...
so i doubt i'll bother buying just one if its going to be timid and skittish by itself. its pretty annoying, i've been waiting for some limas for a loong time...right now i just don't have the cash for the two.
Meanwhile, Homer catches a legendary catfish, General Sherman, but to prove his love for Marge he throws it back in the lake...
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Post by Caol_ila »

hmm well i know i cant influence you on this but arent they illegal for a good reason? Why not breed some cool endangered aussie fish instead? Just a thought...
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Christian
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Post by Sid Guppy »

Like the beautiful, but sadly almost extinct Galaxias species.
Or perhaps Rhadinocentrus ornatus, most imposing of all the Rainbow fish.
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Post by S. Allen »

Caol-ila, anything illegal to own or import in your home country? If so you'll see why the restrictions on fish are just as often useless as they are useful. I'm not saying I break any laws, thankfully my state has very few laws regarding tropicals, but I will say I'd have no moral qualms about keeping the things I do if I lived in california or texas, where at least the stingrays are illegal, and most likely some of the catfish. The reasons for the laws are either knee-jerk reactions, ignorance, or bad fishkeepers. I'm not releasing any of my fish. Make it illegal, but I'm responsible. I don't drive the speed limit and I certainly won't be told what fish I am not allowed to keep by the same government that released oscars into floridas waterways INTENTIONALLY to boost sport fishing income. There are some fish on the lists that should probably be banned, butI think there needs to be serious revision before I take any of the lists seriously. That's for the US, I'm not familiar with Austrailian laws and banned species, nor their geography beyond a very general sense... but... you know, someone who's going to spend that much money on a fish and release it is either ridiculously rich or just plain stupid... I paid less for my tigrinus than that, and there's no way I'd just release him here. Governments aren't always bright, if any of you all want a great example of another banishment in texas that's lunacy, PM or e-mail me... it's not a story fit to be shared here...
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thanks

Post by general-sherman »

thanks guys this is turning into a good little discussion. um...as far as banned fish go in australia the laws are fairly silly and hypocritical. australia is a huge country and there are tropical areas and there are cold areas ( hopefully you know what i mean, hehe).
tropical fish WILL NOT survive if released into any waterways where i live...and yet there is still a noxious list of fish that pose a supposed threat. thats ok with me, i love australia and i am a strongly opinioned consevationist. BUT, the inclusion of sorubim lima on that list seem funny because large and easily bred cichlids like oscars are not on the list. even larger pimelodids like tiger shovelnose are not on the list. the government assumes they don't get into the country, which is stupid because of course they do.
therfore tigershovelnose are in a gray area, they're not illegal to keep (not on the noxious list), but its illegal to import them (not on the legal import list).
Meanwhile, Homer catches a legendary catfish, General Sherman, but to prove his love for Marge he throws it back in the lake...
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Post by Caol_ila »

@s.a. well the fish arent expensive to make sure they arent realeased but to fill the pockets of greedy smugglers...the thing i dont understand is why get alien fishes if you can get great aussie fish most of us would die for to get one?

Here in Germany i have never seen or been offered illigal fishes. For cites animals you need a license to own them...the most common cites animal would be Testudos brought from Greece or the former Yougoslav countries.
Releasing fish here is very expensive if they catch you. But most tropicals wouldnt survive with relatively cold winters. Although i heard of Pacus being caught in rivers.

P.S.: The speed limit break isnt a good comparison as nobody else profits from this. And i dont compare my car to my fish.

P.S2: And most fishkeepers arent as responsible as you are Scott..you have to think of the dumbest member of our society and if he can act in a responsive way.
cheers
Christian
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Post by Silurus »

the thing i dont understand is why get alien fishes if you can get great aussie fish most of us would die for to get one?
Ah, you are forgetting the golden rule of fishkeeping trends (not only in Australia, but in many other countries): "Someone else's fish are always better than ours".
I have seen LFS in many parts of Asia sell almost nothing but non-native fish (South Americans, goldfish, etc.). I walked into a store in northern (Peninsular) Malaysia once, and they were selling local fish (Esomus) alright, but as feeders.
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native fish

Post by general-sherman »

yeah i've kept plenty of native fish (barramundi, saratogas, murray cod, tandanus catfish), i've even been involved in some of the conservation going on to protect australian native fish species. but as a fishkeeper my intrests lie firmly in south america. especially south american catfish. everything from the smallest corydoras to the largest pimelodid. thats why i want sorubim lima. whether i break the laws made to protect waterways this species WILL NOT survive in, or not.
i mean seriously does anyone think a s. lima will survive temps going into the minus celcius? apparently certain goverment agencies in this country think yes.
i'll gladly swap some of my aussie fish (that you would die for) for: sorubim lima, panaque nigrolineatus, hypancistrus zebra, panaqulos maccus, a redtail catfish and about a million other fish i want and either can't get or can't afford. seriously the fish in that list are apealing to me because:
a) i like south american fish.
b)they are unique in this country. meaning i'd be one of a select group of people who has them.
all of those fish i listed cost $600 or more. redtails and panaques are at the top of the list, with redtail going for $800 and panaques topping $1000 in lfs.
Meanwhile, Homer catches a legendary catfish, General Sherman, but to prove his love for Marge he throws it back in the lake...
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Post by Jools »

Just to add a thought to the mix. If any of the big red tails cost $1000 USD or equivalent the whole world over, would so many people try to keep them in 6 foot tanks? Perhaps we should all be paying more for our wild caught fish.

On the golden rule of fishkeeping, I know of a German fish exporter in Iquitos, Peru whose prise possesion is a breeding pair of pidgeon blood discus. Let's not go into the Betta's and tiger barbs he had for sale to the locals...

Have to say I would like to keep an awful lot of native australian fish.

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Post by Caol_ila »

Isnt there a legal way to bring fish into the country if you can provide proof that you are responsible and for study purposes for example?

P.S.: If anybody wonders why i dont keep german fishes...well i would like but it gets so friggin hot in my place during the summer that even some tropicals cant take it...and installing cooling technique is a bit to advanced/expensive for me.
cheers
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yep

Post by general-sherman »

jools has got it exactly right. i don't think i've ever seen a cramped redtail in australia. anyone who pays that much for a fish is going to treat it right.

as for importing fish, there are just some species that fisheries will kill on sight. like large catfish (including large loricariids), central american cichlids, giant gourami, siamese tigerfish to name a few. the funny thing is, fish like these that are in a gray area as far as noxious lists go, are still sold in the shops with no problems (from fisheries inspectors) at all. these fish are in the strange position of being illegal to import and yet legal to sell/posses. it gets even stranger when you consider that some of these species are not, or can't be bred in captivity (some of the ones that are certainly aren't bred in australia). so how do they get here? illegal imports. meaning it is illegal to legally import these fish...and yet somehow ok to smuggle them in. through its own stupidity fisheries has created a black market for these fish.
Meanwhile, Homer catches a legendary catfish, General Sherman, but to prove his love for Marge he throws it back in the lake...
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Post by S. Allen »

heh, we'll try this again, with an extremely slimmed down version of what I originally said then stupidly deleted.

I think that the price point is a major argument. I'm not saying it's good for the smugglers to be getting the money, I'm saying that the price is performing a service making it very restrictive. If they were intelligent about it, the Austrailian government would legalize all but the most dangerous fish and put a huge importation tarrif on them, I'd say less than the current $600, but who knows, I'd imagine $300 would be sufficent to pretty much ensure the fish would be cared for and not released. The $ that is taken in can be used, then, to do things like habitat protection, public education, and such things. Sort of a rip-off of what the government is doing to the tobacco companies over here, except that catfish don't kill.

And about CITES, that's way different than what's restricted in the US caol_ila, of course those species are the backbone, but then they go out and choose other fish, pirhana are one that's been especially picked on. Here's a list of the 50 US states and what their legal stance on pirhana is. http://www.kencofish.com/states.htm at the end of the page are a few specific states, and what they have said "no" to.

I think states like florida are probably the most likely places for released (accidentally or otherwise) tropicals to colonize. There are already tilapia and othes out there, but for some reason florida still keeps a big part of the tropical fish trades importation facilities, and the best known of the american discus breeders works out of florida... Things like this also make me laugh http://fish2u.com/smblackarowana.html Note, they can't sell it in the state of florida. Of course "Fish2U.com is located near Tampa, Florida - the Heart of the World's Tropical Fish farming industry.", Gibsonton FL is where their PO box is... I would think a mass importer would have much higher likelyhood of losing a few fish into the water systems of southern florida than hobbyists... many say that's how some of the pleco species have become so strong in the area. And, the closely related silver arrowana is acceptable for sale in florida... http://fish2u.com/lgsiar.html .

I don't mind rules, there are some fish that are dangerous enough, to local ecosystems if released, that they should be restricted to permit only keeping... Of course what would be on the permit's requirement list?
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Post by Caol_ila »

Hi!

Ok i get your point with the money...agreed.

The thing with a qualification for fishkeepers bears the problem that little kids couldnt keep guppys or platys anymore...or thered have to be exceptions...and didnt we all start with guppys as small kids? I think most did.

isnt the black arowana endangered? Anyway now i understand why the GIs here are crazy for arowanas and Serrasalmus....
cheers
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Post by S. Allen »

not as far as I know, I do know that all asian arrowana are illegal in the US(due to the populations being heavily taxed in native habitats), even if accompanied by breeders papers and tracking chip... there may be some sort of license you can get.
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