HELP! Catfish Keeps Eating Things It Shouldnt!!!

[Mysticalxwhisper]

Okay so here's the lowdown. Mr. Lee, the catfish, has grown huge since we bought him. The guy at the store said as he grows, he'll start eating whatever fits into his mouth. Thankfully for our pleco, Bob, whose head has gotten really wide, Lee cannot eat him. However, he's eating everything else. We bought shells to decorate the tank. Big ones. There are 3. One conk like shell that is quite spikey. Another is a large snail shell and the other was a smaller snail shell but still relatively big. Mr. Lee ate the smallest shell about a month or so ago. We thought he was going to die but apparently it desolved. The other day he ate the bigger snail shell and we thought that was the end of him. But he ended up hocking it up, thank god. But today! Today he dug up one of the plants and at the planter it was in!!! It's black with lots of holes and is about 2 inches long and 2 inches wide. Its completely stuck in his mouth and he can't get it out. I told my boyfriend to see if he could slowly pull it out, but he exclaimed, "that thing can take your hand off!! you do it!!" so yea. How on earth do I get this damn thing out of his mouth? And how do I get him to stop eating inedible things? Believe me, I feed him. If i did what the food directions tell you to do, He'd eat a few bags of food a day. But I don't because, well that's expensive and I'm just hoping he's a glutton. Lol. So does anyone have any help?

Thank you!!

-amber

PS:: this pic is from when he ate the second shell (before he puked it up)


and this is after he got it out. his belly was still a bit poofy. i think its like permanently stretched.

[Martin S]

Only suggestion is to remove everything that could be eaten from the tank and only leave large pieces in that are too big to be eaten - it will most likely regurgitate it in a few days - all you can do is keep an eye on it.
Did you know the full-grown size of this fish when you bought it? What's it current tank size? In case you weren't aware, it's a cross between a species of Pseudoplatystoma and Phractocephalus - adult size is somehwere approaching 4 feet.
Martin

[Mysticalxwhisper]

4 feet?!?! are you kidding?! He's in a 150 gallon tank. He was about 8-12 inches when we bought him. the guy said that he would get about 18 inches in our tank. And that he could get to about 2 feet. But that our tank might slow his growth.

[MatsP]

Right, that looks like a hybrid of Red Tail Catfish and something else:

Phractocephalus sp_hybrid(1)

It will almost certainly eat anything that fits in it's mouth, be it food, filter parts, heaters, shells or anything else. Best to keep the tank reasonably clean of items that can fit in it's mouth and aren't food (e.g. use an inline heater on the external filter, or a heater in a sump-tank, and no decorations that can be eaten, avoid filter attachments that are easily removed (e.g. strainers) - you could have big pieces of wood, that are clearly too big to fit in it's mouth ever).

This fish will live for about 50 years, given good care and clean water, and grow to at least 1m/3'3", quite possibly more. You will need an indoor pond (or if you live where you can keep a temperature of above 22 degrees C/72'F in an outdoors pond all year around, then that is another option).

And to clarify the new post, it is a myth that fish only grow to the size that suits the tank - yes, to some extent that does happen, and that is because the filter capacity and capability of keeping clean enough water to keep the fish healthy will eventually catch up with the waste-production of the fish. But there is nothing built into the fish that prevents it from reaching it's ultimate size in a small tank - only poor living conditions will cause it to stop eating as much as it would like, and probably eventually perish from "swimming in it's own waste". Most of these type of fish do indeed die around 2ft, because fish larger than that are very hard to keep.

--
Mats

[Mysticalxwhisper]

now that you mention a red tail catfish the guy at the store did say he was part that but couldnt remember the other part.

i was also talking to my bf about an indoor pond. only problem is that we live in a condo-type house/apartment. so we'd have to wait til we get a house with space to build.

the catfish hasn't tried to eat any of the equipment in the tank yet *knock on wood* but he doesn't really seem that interested in it. there's actually a few things floating around that the fish have knocked loose that he has never even given a second glance, like the suction cups that hold the filters and stuff. the fish are actually a bit more distructive than he is. lol.

but he has been getting rather aggressive in his eating habits. like now, instead of waiting for the food to drop to him and he charges up to the top of the tank and eats all the other fish's food. infact if i dont shut the tank as soon as i put the food in, he comes out of the tank completely soaking me.

[Martin S]

What other fish do you have in there with it? You mentioned a large plec - is there anything else?

[Richard B]

A couple of points...

Shells are not good decor for south american species as they will increase the hardness - not too bad in this instance.

if there is a foreign object that's been eaten, quite often this will be coughed back up albeit some time later - maybe weeks. This can be encouraged by feeding very ripe fruit like plums, nectarines etc (remove stones).

If fish like this are kept, the decor needs to be minimalist - sand or gravel, huge rocks or massive bogwood or long branches - a few of these & plenty of open water for swimming - minimum tank size something like 16 x 8 foot base area. Decor should be done for the well-being of the fish - personal preferences for looks need to be avoided

[grokefish]

"Knock on Wood" is a very apt saying in this circumstance.
"Wooden top" would be another.

The only way to stop it eating all this crap is to put him in a bigger tank with just a couple of hidey holes one at each end, to big for him to consume.
You must watch for when he pukes stuff back up as he will regurgitate loads of stomach acid also which is going to crash your tank.

I hope you do make a pond for this fellow.
Good luck.

Matt

[apistomaster]

Obviously it seems like it would be wise to remove all snail shells from this apparent hybrid Pimelodid's tank.
Hopefully it will regurgitate the shell(s) it has currently ingested.
Large snails are a good food so if you do happen to culture or collect them, I would smash their shells before feeding the snails to your fish.
These large carnivores aren't terribly fussy about what they swallow.
I have caught 16 to 18 Rainbow Trout from one mountain pond which were feeding on snails of about 1 + inch in diameter and the snails' bulging outlines could be seen and felt while handling them during their release. I had read that trout do eat snails but that was my first time in encountering such trout.
Your catfish does look like one of those that could easily reach 3 to 4 feet TL.

I have briefly kept Perrunichthys perruno, Liarius marmoratus and Platystomichthys sturio until they reached about 10-12 inches starting with specimens of about 4 inches and enjoyed them. Pretty cool fish if you have the room to provide for such large fish. I had to trade them in and made the agreement to do so with the vendor prior to buying them.
I had mine in a 125 gal tank and I also tried keeping a young specimen of some species of SE Asian Soft Shell Turtle with them.
I had to give the turtle it's own tank since it was snapping pieces off the fins and it also was growing too rapidly so it would have eventually endangered the fish.
I fed my turtle and large catfish chunks of fresh frozen trout.

[Mysticalxwhisper]

we have 4 oscars in the tank as well.


thank you all for your suggestions. tonight im going to be removing a bunch of stuff from the tank to minimize his issues.

Richard B, you said shells increase hardness... what did you mean by that?

[Richard B]

A lot of South American fish come from regions where the water is soft - this means there are not many dissolved minerals. Generally this water is also slightly acidic. The opposite are the rift valley lakes where the water tends to be alkaline with high hardness (lots of dissolved minerals). Having shells in water increases or buffers hardness -that's why people use coral sand or crushed cockle shell in malawi/tanganyikan tanks.

In your circumstance i think the results are probably negligible

[Mysticalxwhisper]

oooh okay.

[Mysticalxwhisper]

also, i was wondering if there's anything special i could feed him.
he basically lives off of shrimp pellets, algae wafers and live fish. although he's been also eating the oscar's food lately.
besides everything, is there anything they like in particular?

[apistomaster]

Your catfish will eat chunks of fresh fish, beef heart and live earthworms.

[Richard B]

Add to this - crabs, prawns, cockles, mussels, oysters etc

[Mysticalxwhisper]

like i said he ate a planter, i just got to the apartment last night so here's a few pics.







idk if in the last one you can see the planter, but thats what i was trying to get.
in a few minutes ill post a video of it.

i think its very hard for him to breathe tho, because he's spent majority of the night and this morning directly in front of the output of the filter. i think the water rushing past him is helping him to breathe, but he's using all his energy just to stay up to it, since its about midtank.

[Mysticalxwhisper]

okay. i thought this would help you see it better, but after watching it on youtube, not so much. either way check it out. and at the end the pleco is in it. he's not all that big compared to the catfish lol.

[DutchFry]

he is breathing very heavily indeed. to me it seems the planter is in front of the mouth, isn't it? can't you just reach in his mouth and try to pull it out? maybe with a protective glove on? as far as i know, these guys don't have sharp teeth, they swallow their prey whole.

for the pleco, i think it is

Pseudorinelepis sp(l152)

which is a really cool fish, but he is also growing quite large! not as large as the hybrid catfish, but still very big.

I wish you the best of luck, hope he's gonna be ok!

[Mysticalxwhisper]

well i don't really have any sort of protective glove. i suggested that we take it out but my bf doesn't want too.
but i was just watching him, and it seems to be stuck on a part of his mouth. he began thrashing and like "coughing" . he opened his mouth well enough that the planter should have come out but as i was watching i noticed it's caught just about where the gills begin, on a flap of skin. i'm afraid if i try to pull it out i'm going to injure him.
and i can tell he's in bad shape cause he doesn't even want food.

[MatsP]

Unfortunately, I think the only plausible thing is to get the fish out and manually remove it. It's been in distress for a few days now, and I see no resolution that will be without some effort for you, and some more stress for the fish.

Before you do that, I'd recommend that you pop down to the nearest garden / DIY shop and get a pair of protective gloves, just in case you need them - nothing worse than having to catch a fast-swimmer more than once because you don't have all you need.

I'd also get a pair of sturdy scissors with a blunt end if you don't have some already - something that can cut the plastic of the plant-pot with ease. Just in case it's easier to get it out in pieces [but be careful the pieces come out when you cut them]. Secateurs [spelling?] may be a good idea.

You may need TWO people, one "operating on the fish", and the other holding the fish still. Generally, fish out of water will hold still fairly well, but when stressed by someone "messing with them", they will still thrash about, and the last thing you want is to hurt the fish because it is wriggling about.

There was a post recently by "grokefish" about removing a stuck fish from the mouth - a similar task as to what you have to do.

--
Mats

[Mysticalxwhisper]

ugh, okay.
i will attempt it later tonight possibly.

thank you

[Richard B]

You could wrap a wet towel around the fish then stradle it to restrict the movement, then a second person do the removal - i think it is a 2 person job, which will speed it up & minimise stress

[Mysticalxwhisper]

okay, thank you

[Mysticalxwhisper]

how long can he be out of the water without getting hurt?

[Richard B]

Actually a fair few minutes, particulalrly if wrapped in a wet towel but remember, the shorter time out of water, the quicker it'll settle back in the tank. The longer out of water, the more it'll suffer.

[andywoolloo]

oh my goodness!! Best of wishes to you! Please tell us how it went!

[Mysticalxwhisper]

okay, so today is the day. we realized last night we wouldn't be able to get him out without a net so today we're gonna go to the specialty store and try to find a huge net. he outgrew our big net. ill get back to you guys later after we attempt to remove it.

wish me luck. lol.

[Mysticalxwhisper]

okay so we attempted to get it out 3 times to no avail. so after searching, we found a doctor that can try to get it out.

t2ul.

[andywoolloo]

omg, good luck! poor thing! keep us posted.

[Mysticalxwhisper]

okay, now that i have a bit more time. i'll give a few details.

he was a good sport surprisingly. when we first caught him, he pretty much when psycho, but we held him at the top of the water in the net and let him calm down. but the minute we put him on the floor he took off. lol. but i think after the second try he realized we were trying to help him (we put him back in the water after every attempt) cause he soon began just swimming into the net. we couldn't find any blunt scissors, but we used tongs instead. unfortunately because of the way he crushed the planter to eat it, it was pretty much impossible to get it out without injuring him. he bent it pretty much into an oval. the corners are caught in his gills and the top & bottom parts are caught at the back of his mouth, stopping it from coming forward.

when we first tried to pull it, the poor thing's eyes rolled back, so i told my bf we had to try something else cause he was obviously in pain. the second try did nothing. but the third try we got a hold of it again but when we moved it we heard a scraping noise so we immediately stopped.

we're off to the doctor's tomorrow morning.
hopefully everything goes well. the doctor said they would just put him under and gently remove it. hopefully that's all he has to do.
ill write tomorrow.