SA bumble bee ID tips?

L number Banana · Post by **L number Banana** » 11 Sep 2009, 02:07

Hi,
Is there an easy way to tell if a shop's Bumblebee catfish is and not ?
I could see that in the pics, the smaller one has more yellow but there's not enough comparison pics for me to really understand the mouth gape measurement.

I *think* I found M.iheringi at a local fish shop but he's mixed in with many plecos just labelled Small plecos and Med plecos

It's the kind of shop that has such gross tanks that I can't even get a picture. Part of me hates to give them any business but they're the only shop that ever gets by-catch fish that the staff doesn't know about.

He's still only about 1.5 inches but his colouring is quite evenly darker than the pictures. The plecos look like they're South American so I was kind of hoping...
Can the bumblebee be kept by himself in my SA community tank? They only have one.

Post by **Birger** » 11 Sep 2009, 02:32

The Pseudomystus will hang around more like a syno would, where the Microglanis will be crammed under whatever it can...if that makes sense.

The Microglanis usually have a fairly low price tag (only a few bucks)when compared to Pseudomystus usually.

If you can print off a picture of each and take them in with you...makes it more clear when under pressure to decide.

Hope this helps
Birger

and yes it could be kept by itself.

Suckermouth · Post by **Suckermouth** » 11 Sep 2009, 02:36

Hmmm, after you look at enough of each species, you'll eventually learn that they pretty much are completely different.

1. The mouth of M. iheringi is fairly wide and basically at the end of the head. On the other hand, in P. siamensis the mouth is downturned and on the bottom of the head.

2. The stripe pattern is different. Really, it is. M. iheringi is more of an orange fish with black splotches/stripes, while P. siamensis is a black fish with orange marks/stripes.

3. The caudal (tail) fin of P. siamensis is more strongly "forked", as in the tail is separated into upper and lower lobes more strongly. Look at the pics again.

4. M. iheringi is more or less a sausage-shape, while P. siamensis is deeper-bodied at the dorsal fin.

5. As mentioned, P. siamensis is more of a swimming fish than M. iheringi. If you see M. iheringi swimming, it's probably very frantically while wiggling its entire body. P. siamensis is much more of a graceful swimmer.

I doubt the M. iheringi came in with plecs; common plecs are bred on farms, so it's pretty hard to get bycatch.

nvcichlids · Post by **nvcichlids** » 11 Sep 2009, 05:05

Suckermouth wrote:Hmmm, after you look at enough of each species, you'll eventually learn that they pretty much are completely different.

1. The mouth of M. iheringi is fairly wide and basically at the end of the head. On the other hand, in P. siamensis the mouth is downturned and on the bottom of the head.

2. The stripe pattern is different. Really, it is. M. iheringi is more of an orange fish with black splotches/stripes, while P. siamensis is a black fish with orange marks/stripes.

3. The caudal (tail) fin of P. siamensis is more strongly "forked", as in the tail is separated into upper and lower lobes more strongly. Look at the pics again.

4. M. iheringi is more or less a sausage-shape, while P. siamensis is deeper-bodied at the dorsal fin.

5. As mentioned, P. siamensis is more of a swimming fish than M. iheringi. If you see M. iheringi swimming, it's probably very frantically while wiggling its entire body. P. siamensis is much more of a graceful swimmer.

I doubt the M. iheringi came in with plecs; common plecs are bred on farms, so it's pretty hard to get bycatch.

umm dead on.. but the last part about the m. iheringi coming in with common plecos, I have seen it and it is a great way to snag a few for even below dirt cheap (got 4 for free because the person couldn't ID them and they thought they might be native and they didn't have a license to sell natives.. oh brother

..)

Suckermouth · Post by **Suckermouth** » 11 Sep 2009, 05:24

Man, really? I guess one part of the issue is that all the LFSes I regularly visit have workers that actually can identify SA bumblebees, so that might be why I've never seen it happen.

L number Banana · Post by **L number Banana** » 11 Sep 2009, 07:17

Suckermouth:

Man, really? I guess one part of the issue is that all the LFSes I regularly visit have workers that actually can identify SA bumblebees, so that might be why I've never seen it happen.

What a luxury that is for you! My regular LFS is awesome but the one that has the Bumblebee is somewhat dubious and QTing fish from that place is a must

Unfortunately that's the only place that the more unusual catfish ever show up

I got my C. napoensis there for el cheapo, they thought he was a 'deformed' C. trilineatus, hehe.

Thanks for all the help everyone, I'll bring the pics and info with me tomorrow. QT is up and running.

L number Banana · Post by **L number Banana** » 12 Sep 2009, 00:13

He's just adorable and seems healthy, little tear in his fin. He's definitely smaller than I stated before. The fellow at the cash was the only person in the store who knew what it was.
He said, "Hey, we got bumblebees in?"
I said, "Nope, not anymore." Heeheee.
He looks right, lobed tail, more orange, right shape. Please confirm

Here's the new darling, probably the last I'll see of him for some time.

Suckermouth · Post by **Suckermouth** » 12 Sep 2009, 04:38

Definitely a Microglanis, and definitely not a Pseudomystus.

L number Banana · Post by **L number Banana** » 12 Sep 2009, 04:50

Yea! Thanks, Suckermouth! My first Pseudopimelodidae. Now I'll have to learn how to say that without tying my tongue in a knot.
He'll (she?) will be going in my SA tank. I QT'd him in the plant tank and I thought he would hide and be a real job to find again but so far I've been able to watch him many times, cruising around the plants and rocks even hanging out at the rocks in the front where it's brightest. Maybe the stay in the fish shop made him less shy than expected. Hasn't touched the shrimp pellet yet but I'll take it out in the AM if it's still there and try some brine shrimp.
Oo, I'm feeling like it's Christmas.

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 12 Sep 2009, 08:16

Thats a male, .
They are fab fish L, Definately in my top 3 catfish of all time.
You very rarely get any around here.
One point of note though, make sure they cannot get into filter outlets/inlets or powerhead inlets/outlets, because they will and you will be cleaning up bumblebee goo.
I have lost many like this.
Bigger catfish, such as megladoras and oncincus have knocked the strainer off and in go the microglanis.
I have a lone female so it's a shame we live on diferent continents otherwise you could have her.
They love brineshrimp and water fleas.
Some where is a post I did on an attempt I made at breeding them with pictures of males and females, I could e-mail you pictures if you wanted. PM me if you want them, actually I think they are videos.

Matt

L number Banana · Post by **L number Banana** » 12 Sep 2009, 21:52

Grokefish:

They love brineshrimp and water fleas.

Waterfleas?? Where and how do I get them? That's a new one on me. Can I culture them?

I've got one of those filters that has only small slits in the end piece and it's just about welded on. I'll give it a quick check just in case, thanks.
Bummer about your lone female but mine came in as a mistake by-catch with the plecos so you never know. I had no breeding plans but I didn't plan on breeding anything until it's started to happen...now I want baby twigs, baby hoplos etc etc

I'll pm you about the pics/vids, thanks! I still can't believe they stay so small, he has all the features of some bigger cats but reproduced in miniature, and he has that smiley face too. I've already sent pictures to everyone like I've got a new baby or something

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 12 Sep 2009, 22:03

L number Banana wrote: Waterfleas?? Where and how do I get them? That's a new one on me. Can I culture them?

Waterfleas are also known as daphnia, which may be a name you are more familiar with

Martin

L number Banana · Post by **L number Banana** » 12 Sep 2009, 23:10

Waterfleas are also known as daphnia, which may be a name you are more familiar with

Oops, Duh!

Thanks Martin!

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 12 Sep 2009, 23:29

he is really beautiful and stays nice and small, nice find!

their eyes and mouths are very different from looking at both species pictures. would be the only way I could ever tell the small ones apart of each species.

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 13 Sep 2009, 01:38

Ha, ha.
Thanks Martin, I couldn't be arsed remembering how to spell daphnia.Had a brain freeze.

Matt

Suckermouth · Post by **Suckermouth** » 13 Sep 2009, 02:13

grokefish wrote:Thats a male,
Microglanis iheringi
.

Matt

How do you tell? I was unaware that there was an easy way to sex them.

nvcichlids · Post by **nvcichlids** » 13 Sep 2009, 05:14

with my breeding colony, I just made sure to have a ton of them, figuring some would be male, some would be female.

Post by **Shane** » 13 Sep 2009, 07:15

I'll give you an even easier way to tell pims (to include pseudopims and heptapterids) from bagrids. All bagrids have nasal barbels, no pims do. If it has four barbels above the mouth it is a bagrid... two and it is a pim.

Note obvious nasal barbels

Take a close look at picture 3

-Shane

L number Banana · Post by **L number Banana** » 15 Sep 2009, 00:33

I'll give you an even easier way to tell pims (to include pseudopims and heptapterids) from bagrids. All bagrids have nasal barbels, no pims do. If it has four barbels above the mouth it is a bagrid... two and it is a pim.

Note obvious nasal barbels
Pseudomystus sp(1)

Take a close look at picture 3
Microglanis iheringi

-Shane

Good tip, Thank you. I'll have to make up a rhyme to remember that - it's a good one

I've named him Abe and he's doing well, really likes FD brineshrimp if I stick it under the slate so it doesn't float away.

L number Banana · Post by **L number Banana** » 15 Sep 2009, 01:03

Okay, here's some fun. Think it's accurate enough? May need to work in a rhyme with "yellow". Orangey-rose is kind of a cope out

Bumblebee, Bumblebee,
Which one are you?
If you're a catfish
there are only two.

If I'm the Bagrid,
then I'm from the east.
My tail is quite forked,
on critters, I feast.
My barbels are eight
with two on my nose.
My colour is dark
with stripes orangey-rose.

But if I'm a Pim
then I'm from the south.
My tail is quite round,
I've a front facing mouth.
My barbels are six
and my colour is light,
with patches of black
on top of the bright.

Post by **Shane** » 15 Sep 2009, 17:00

I love it!
-Shane

L number Banana · Post by **L number Banana** » 15 Sep 2009, 17:29

I love it!
-Shane

Thanks Shane

Kind of child-like but fun. Did you notice there's no catfish books for kids?? I'll save up all my catfish-learning goodies and will someday submit them or self-publish a little booklet for my local stores. More young fans = more catfish studied

Post by **Shane** » 18 Sep 2009, 08:02

I really like that idea. Pls send me a copy for my daughter when you finish.
-Shane

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 18 Sep 2009, 08:13

I love it! Shane's tips on telling the diff and your poem!!

And a catfish book for kids sounds great!!

Carp37 · Post by **Carp37** » 18 Sep 2009, 13:06

Great rhyme Tana- you've got a knack for them!

L number Banana · Post by **L number Banana** » 18 Sep 2009, 15:41

I really like that idea. Pls send me a copy for my daughter when you finish.
-Shane

Will do and thanks andywoolloo & Carp37!

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 18 Sep 2009, 16:30

Suckermouth wrote:
grokefish wrote:Thats a male,
Microglanis iheringi
.

Matt
How do you tell? I was unaware that there was an easy way to sex them.

Put them together and it's easy.

I can't find my pictures/videos but basically the females are alot fatter and deeper than the males. Males tend to be very "slinky"

Matt

Suckermouth · Post by **Suckermouth** » 18 Sep 2009, 20:32

grokefish wrote:
Suckermouth wrote:
grokefish wrote:Thats a male,
Microglanis iheringi
.

Matt
How do you tell? I was unaware that there was an easy way to sex them.
Put them together and it's easy.

I can't find my pictures/videos but basically the females are alot fatter and deeper than the males. Males tend to be very "slinky"

Matt

Ah, I see, thanks Matt.

SA bumble bee ID tips?

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