Disease ID

[PlecoCrazy]

Can anybody help identify what parasite or disease this fish has. I just got in a group of 15 fish yesterday and many of them have this. This guy that you see is the worst of them.



Thanks.

[apistomaster]

I suspect the primary disease is Chilodonella then the fluffy sots are a secondary fungus infection.
Only examination of skin smears under a microscope can confirm.
Look for heart shaped flagellates and fungal hyphae.
It is difficult to cure and save those specimens in the most advanced stages.
I would begin treating them with malachite green and methylene blue with about 1 tps of rock salt/gal.
My guess is that about 1/2 will die even if treated but all may die without any treatment.

[PlecoCrazy]

Thanks for the info. I was hoping for just the fungus part. It sure sucks some people sell fish like this.

I ask for a microscope every year for christmas along with fish books, seine's, cast nets, etc.... never get a one.

Guess I better buy it myself.

So should I use malachite green together with methylene blue at the same time or is it one or the other. Thanks again.

[Barbie]

Chilodonella usually also causes erosion of the fin edges between the rays. Do you have that there? I suspect from the look of the tiny white dots that this is probably oodinium, but it's really a moot point without a microscope to confirm it. I would recommend treating with a medication called Proform C that has a stabilized malachite green/formalin base, if they were mine. I do 50% water changes every day before treatment and have great success, as long as the fish aren't too far gone already. Good luck with these. That one sure looks rough!

Barbie

[PlecoCrazy]

Thanks. I have API's QuickCure with has formalin, and malachite green so I will go add that with some salt since the malachite green appears to be good for both. The fins look in pretty good shape except for white bumps along the fin's outer ray's. I think the tiny white dots might be sand as the fish are mucusy from the fungus and I think it's sand sticking to them. But the malachite green should take care of both so we'll give that a whirl. Just got done with the 50% water change. I always like the idea of treating sick fish with daily water changes. I plan on also buying one of those internal UV sterlizer with powerhead things from petsmart when they open tomorrow to help take care of anything floating around in the water column since most of these things seem free swimming.

Thanks for both of your help!!!

[Barbie]

UV sterilization can render medications ineffective, so definitely check on that before you turn one on while treating ;).

Barbie

[apistomaster]

Whether it is velvet or Chilodonella the medications that work are the same. Both take more time to cure than Ich and Velvet is easier and faster to cure than Chilodonella.
The last time I had a shipment of L204 and L66 which had bad Chilodonella infestations I did not notice any fraying fins but I couldn't tell for sure what they had until I looked at skin smears under my microscope. I haven't had much trouble with plecos getting Velvet but Chilodonella has come up several times with badly treated wild caught plecos I have received. It took several weeks to clear it up on the stronger fish which survived long enough for the disease to be cured. My losses were very high.
They came in looking like your fish but they hadn't developed the secondary fungal infection.

I agree with Barbie that you should not use UV in conjunction with any medications. UV is most useful in centralized filtration systoms to reduce the chances of spreading diseass among the several tanks connected to one large central filter. Many shops use such systems but no medications and this can suppress the obvious symptoms. Once removed from such a system like those brought home, the diseases usually assert themselves. UV isn't an effective way to cure sick fish. Most retail shops using central filtration have provisions to isolate a sick tank by a system of valves so they can treat an isolated tank off-line.

[PlecoCrazy]

Thanks for your all your help. While not completely clean yet many fish have some scaring marks from the disease but most of it seems to be disappearing and have not lost a fish yet. Hopefully I'm not jinxing myself.

I've been using the machalite green, formalin, and salt combination. Doing 50% water changes most days and reapplying medicine and salt. Good thing machalite green is cheap.

Thanks again.

[bunnyrabbit]

I read in a post that metronidazole and salt is also a treatment for velvet. Has anyone tried this? Malachite green is not available in Canada as far as I know.

[apistomaster]

It might work. Metronidazole isn't hard on the fish but is was designed as an anti-flagellate, ich is a ciliated protazoan.
Salt and elevated temperatures will cure Ich. Adding metronidazole might help. I haven't tried that method so I can't say for sure how it would work but it shouldn't hurt.

[Mike_Noren]

If antiparasitic medication doesn't work, consider antibacterial medication. Antibiotics against gram-negative bacteria, ideally.

[bunnyrabbit]

I thought velvet was due to oodinium pilularis which is a dinoflagellate. I'm not sure about Ich or chilodonella, but they seem to be related as the meds are similar. It is easy to get confused by the secondary symptoms and overlook the true cause. It would be best to get a proper diagnosis in which case a microscope is essential. I learned this the hard way too.

[PlecoCrazy]

Kind of an old post but just to catch it up to date. I applied the salt, malachite green, formalin, water change treatment for about 2 months, maybe a little longer. Never lost a fish. When I moved the fish to my fishroom this spring they all looked pretty clean. Just tonight when I went to feed them I noticed they had spawned so they turned a 180 from when I got them just fine. Thank you much Barbie and Apistomaster for all your help. Your advice was right on.

[apistomaster]

Hi Trent,
Barbie coached me through my initial stages of the art of keeping and breeding plecos as well as being a good customer for any Discus I had for sale through her shop. She only lives 100 miles North of me.
I am pleased to hear your fish went from being sick to breeding in such a short time.