Belo Monte Dam update from Altimira

[apistomaster]

I came across a report from Altimira, Brazil in the New York Times about the on-going furor over the construction of the Belo Monte Hydroelectric dam.
Construction begins next year and Altimira will soon be under water. Good bye, wild Hypancistrus zebra.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/world ... f=americas

[dconnors]

Very sad...

[corybrummie2010]

That is really bad news.

[MatsP]

And if you think that's bad, then this map shows the plans for future dams:
http://www.dams-info.org/en

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Mats

[andywoolloo]

in relation to this, second post down from Heiko Bleher

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthrea ... 48&page=26

ty simplydiscus.com

[PlecoCrazy]

Here's an article I came across. Not any good news just some information.

Belo Monte, "The Worst Engineering Project in the History of Brazil"

[Suckermouth]

in relation to this, second post down from Heiko Bleher

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthrea ... 48&page=26

ty simplydiscus.com

As someone who is actually concerned for all the other species as well, this is hardly comforting.

[Mike_Noren]

Here's an article I came across. Not any good news just some information.

Belo Monte, "The Worst Engineering Project in the History of Brazil"

Good article, although it dodges the issue of graft, which I suspect is one of the biggest motivators for the innumerable dam projects around the tropics right now.
As for Xingu I'm pretty certain that once the dam is built, the government and developers will pretend to be surprised by the fact that the dam only produces electricity for four months of the year, and state that this makes it necessary to build a second larger dam upstream to remove the seasonal fluctuation.

[andywoolloo]

I am also concerned for all the species and also did not find it comforting.

[DJ-don]

I think its time other countries to put more global pressure on them

no one hardly in australia has even heard of this

[crkinney]

I realy don't know about how many dams there are in other countrys but there are a pile of them in the USA and until we do something about the problem in our own back yard I think we should mind our own DAM business!
Belive it or not we are part of nature and will change this world ,mostly for the worst when it comes to the plants and animals we all displace .As for me I didnot fight my way all the way to the top of the food change to go back to eating bushes .I kinda like running water ,lectric lites and AC in the summer and indoor plumming ain't too bad eather .It could be that those guys in those devloping countrys want those thing to . YA THINK

[crkinney]

P.S. yes I still HATE Mickey Mouse

[Mike_Noren]

I realy don't know about how many dams there are in other countrys but there are a pile of them in the USA and until we do something about the problem in our own back yard I think we should mind our own DAM business!

No. We should oppose the worst dams, the ones doing the most damage, and extinguishing the most species, not the ones which just happen to be geographically closest to where we live. The Belo Monte dam in Xingu may completely extinguish as many as a dozen species of fish (plus one frog), and is heads and shoulders above anything being planned in the US wrt destructiveness.

[MatsP]

The Belo Monte dam in Xingu may completely extinguish as many as a dozen species of fish (plus one frog), and is heads and shoulders above anything being planned in the US wrt destructiveness.

I'd expect MORE than a dozen species, actually. The region where the dam goes is the ONLY known locality for several of the Hypancistrus species, along with several other species of pleco. I'm pretty sure there are a whole bunch of other fish that are endemic to that region.

Also, let's say I hurt my head riding a bicycle in my youth and I tell someone "It's a bad idea to ride a bicycle without a helmet", would you then accept that "Well, you did when you were young, so therefore I can now!", because SO FAR, you haven't hurt yourself? We KNOW from what has been done in other parts of the world what damage these dams do to the nature around them. US have built some massive dams in the past.

And bear in mind that the number of native freshwater fish species in all of North America is roughly equivalent to those found in Rio Xingu [North America has about 1000 species, Rio Xingu has somewhere between 500-700 species] - many of the Rio Xingu species aren't the found in any other river. In most parts of North America, the species found in Missisippi can also be found in Missouri, Ohio River, etc, etc. Sure, there are some species that are pretty limited in their distribution. And by the way, Rio Xingu is about half the length of the Missouri...

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Mats

[drpleco]

Belive it or not we are part of nature and will change this world ,mostly for the worst when it comes to the plants and animals we all displace .As for me I didnot fight my way all the way to the top of the food change to go back to eating bushes .I kinda like running water ,lectric lites and AC in the summer and indoor plumming ain't too bad eather .It could be that those guys in those devloping countrys want those thing to . YA THINK

If you're going to use the evolution argument, then you need to realize that at some point, you were a fish (or some other lower organism) and you survived because there weren't any humans around to ruin your habitat.

As far as all the amenities that the dam will provide....a great number of natives are protesting exactly because they don't want them and prefer their known way of life. As we've also discussed many times before, the primary function of the dam is to produce electricity to smelt aluminum and not to improve any regular individual's quality of life. There are ways to advance a society without doing irreparable damage to the environment but Brazil's government seems wholly uninterested. The fact that this dam will wipe so many species off the planet, whether you're a catfish fan or not, is inexcusable.

[Bas Pels]

I realy don't know about how many dams there are in other countrys but there are a pile of them in the USA and until we do something about the problem in our own back yard I think we should mind our own DAM business!

This is exactly the heart of the problem.

In Europe, or north America, one river is mostly the same as any other. most fish are quite adaptable, and we build special things to allow migrating fishes to keep migrating

Looking at the result, not that much harm is done, and if one would take the alternatives into account, hydroelectric plants are quite acceptable, from an environmental point of view

In the tropics, the situation is way different. Species have small areas of distribution - partly because they are very sensitive towards environmental changes, partly because so much life excists, a species can be highly specialized and still survive

In such a situation the whole distribution area of certain species gets involved - so these become extinct. Further, many species need each other, and therefore more species will die. Finally, the Belo Monte dam will fload rainforest - that is, an area with a lot of biomass, and al that biomass will go into the atmosphere as carbon dioxid

Therefore, the Belo Monte will be all bus carbon dioxid neutral. I think, assuming it will last for 30 years, it migh come close to a powerplant burning coal

[MatsP]

Therefore, the Belo Monte will be all but carbon dioxid neutral. I think, assuming it will last for 30 years, it might come close to a powerplant burning coal

I pointed that out in the online version of a paper some time back. But it got censored (probably because it didn't agree with "policy" of the paper itself - whereas my more lighthearted comments were published).

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Mats

[Janne]

New article about Belo Monte project can be read in Deutch http://www.amazonas-magazin.de/AMAZONAS ... 873.0.html and in English http://www.amazonas-magazin.de/index.php?id=1874

After you have read the article you can click on the donate link and support directly the work to resist the constructions of the Belo Monte dams and the natives struggle for their human rights.

It's free for everyone to put a link in other homepages/forums to the articles and support the work.

Janne

[MatsP]

I've posted it on "Stop the Belo Monte Dam" on facebook!

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Mats

[DJ-don]

I realy don't know about how many dams there are in other countrys but there are a pile of them in the USA and until we do something about the problem in our own back yard I think we should mind our own DAM business!

This is exactly the heart of the problem.

In Europe, or north America, one river is mostly the same as any other. most fish are quite adaptable, and we build special things to allow migrating fishes to keep migrating

Looking at the result, not that much harm is done, and if one would take the alternatives into account, hydroelectric plants are quite acceptable, from an environmental point of view

In the tropics, the situation is way different. Species have small areas of distribution - partly because they are very sensitive towards environmental changes, partly because so much life excists, a species can be highly specialized and still survive

In such a situation the whole distribution area of certain species gets involved - so these become extinct. Further, many species need each other, and therefore more species will die. Finally, the Belo Monte dam will fload rainforest - that is, an area with a lot of biomass, and al that biomass will go into the atmosphere as carbon dioxid

Therefore, the Belo Monte will be all bus carbon dioxid neutral. I think, assuming it will last for 30 years, it migh come close to a powerplant burning coal

The snowy hydro in Australia only had to drown out one small town and it didnt affect the land or the fish in our waters

The Belomonte Dam would affect a city, hundreds and hundreds of forest land and the fish in there have been living this way proberly for thousands of years and they are sensitive. just like some plecos we keep in our tanks from this river could be sensitive or what ever

and im thinking the belomonte wouldnt be able to catch up the Co2 it releases from cutting down those trees

[Janne]

and im thinking the belomonte wouldnt be able to catch up the Co2 it releases from cutting down those trees

They don't clear the land before flooding the dams, the whole project will release so much methan and carbon dioxide gases under at least 20 years that todays problem will look small in comparision. All rivers south of the Great Amazon will be dammed from the east coast of Brazil to the westcost in Peru.

Janne

[pleco22]

Hi,

First: Janne - thank you for your article published in Amazonas Magazin about the Situation of the Belo Monte Dam. (This article is in german, but google will translate it for sure)
http://www.amazonas-magazin.de/AMAZONAS ... 873.0.html

I hope this article helps german ornamental fish keeper to understand, the situation in Brasil. And perhaps some action will occur

Thank you

Felix

[MatsP]

Or you could just read the Amazonas official English translation here:
http://www.amazonas-magazin.de/index.php?id=1874

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Mats

[Mike_Noren]

Could Janne or someone else shed some light on two statements I've found when reading about the Belo Monte dam:
1) It is stated in some online articles that there is a requirement that flow through the Volta Grande should not be less than 1000m3/s after the construction of the dam. Is this accurate?
2) There's numerous statements that $800 million will be spent on "protecting the environment". What does this mean? Will any of that money go towards protecting aquatic life, or is it all compensation to the native peoples?

[Janne]

1) It is stated in some online articles that there is a requirement that flow through the Volta Grande should not be less than 1000m3/s after the construction of the dam. Is this accurate?

Not really, the latest statement is 30.000m3/h but this is a number with modefication. This flow may be 0 sometimes depending on how the dry season falls out, some years it's almost no rain at all and the flow will be very low, that would mean they have to chose between turning of the turbines completely under some periods to be able to keep the minimum flow in Volta Grande or no flow from Xingu in Volta Grande and run the turbines. For the ones that follow the news know that this year some parts of Brazil is dry as Sahara desert.

2) There's numerous statements that $800 million will be spent on "protecting the environment". What does this mean? Will any of that money go towards protecting aquatic life, or is it all compensation to the native peoples?

No protecting of the aquatic life, the money is meant for relocation people, new houses, infrastructure etc. to make the large change of the environment to have as slittle affect as possible on the people. But honestly I think no one really knows how this money will be spent, imagine an emigration of 100.000 people to the area searching their luck for a work wher no infrastructure are present, maybe 20.000 will get a job. They plan to build houses in the villages of Altamira and Vitoria to integrate all this people with the local people to hold back the criminality to florish.

Janne

[Janne]

To get a better picture of what is on the way to happen with Amazonas everyone should watch this movie.
http://www.internationalrivers.org/en/node/5756

Janne

[andywoolloo]

wow, that video really shows it all. hopefully sting will get re involved , the more big names the better.

I wasn't surprised they highlighted the zebra pl*co, wish they would have shown them all tho.

I hate bauxite i think .

[MatsP]

The petition at the end of the video:
http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/24 ... loMonteDam

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Mats

[kruseman]

Bloody hell. a couple of the good old dambusters. That is what we need.

[apistomaster]

News Flash!
Aquarists of the world enlist the Confederate Air Force and use historical war planes to mount an attack on the newly completed Belo Monte Dam. Brazilian F-16 fighters easily defeated the attacking forces.

Aquarists petition Congress to declare war on Brazil but sympathetic Congress members can't get even a quorum together. Republican Congress people vow to obstruct any efforts to open a new war they haven't fabricated for their own reasons.
Senate Minority leader, Mitch Mconnell, says Brazil is in the same philosophical camp so we will support any anti-environmental policies of our like minded, corrupt brothers in Brazil.