Do jaguar catfish swim upside down in caves?

[ad8]

I just purchased a jaguar catfish from a local Petsmart. They are supposedly a novelty fish in stock for a short time. I purchased one thinking I may never find one again. Well it is swimming upside down in its cave and I am starting to wonder if I have a syno and not a jaguar. So my question is would a 2" jaguar catfish swim upside down in a cave?
Thank You in advance for your responses.


Adrian

[MatsP]

I don't think swimming upside down rules anything in or out, many catfish are perfectly happy to rest or swim upside down. A photo [which I admit may not be at all easy - you may need to catch the fish into a small tank - you can get cheap plastic ones which are pretty good for photographing fish if you don't have a proper glass photo tank].

--
Mats

[Marc van Arc]

So my question is: would a 2" jaguar catfish swim upside down in a cave?

Yes, no problem.

[ad8]

Thank You for the quick responses, I don't have a small tank of any kind I only have a standard 55 gallon at the moment. So Marc according to your experience it could still be a jaguar. I guess I will be patient and see how this fish develops.

[MatsP]

I think what Mark is saying is that it's not unnatural for Jaguar cats to swim upside down. It doesn't mean that it can't be something else.

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Mats

[ad8]

Yeah, I understand I am just going to grow it out and see.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I'd be totally blown away if you found Liosomadoras Oncinus at Petsmart. Big box stores like Petsmart and Petco, etc. carry very little interesting fish if not to say never. 99 to 1 what you got is a syno, likely a hybrid jaguar syno = S. multipunctatus x S. decorus or smth else.

I would wanna know what fish I bought and am trying to grow out. You are entitled to your choices, certainly, but I imagine experts (of which I am not one) like Mats and Marc would not want to waste their time trying to help somebody who does not care enough to know what fish they bought, IMHO, and hence, do not know how to properly care for their pet.

I sure hope I am wrong in my superficial assessment of the situation but such is the state of things at its face value.

[MatsP]

Viktor,

I'm happy to help anyone, and I think your assesment is a bit harsh to a newbie. It may well be difficult for the keeper to get a photo of the fish.

I agree that "Jaguar catfish" is more likely to be something other than

Liosomadoras oncinus

or even the false jag

Liosomadoras morrowi

- something else would likely be

Synodontis sp_hybrid(5)

, but it could be several other things (we've even seen examples of people coming out of chain stores with things that are quite far from what the label says, and those with a bit more knowledge having to tell the staff what fish to get out of the tank...). You are also right in that they do require a bit different care, so knowing which it is would be a good thing.

--
Mats

[ad8]

Viktor, I hope I am just misunderstanding your post, but it sounds like you are slamming me. Why wouldn't the experts on this site not want to help me? I thought the whole purpose of a forum is for experts and novice to communicate with each other. The fish I purchased was listed as a jaguar catfish and I have always wanted one and I have studied the care for them. I have just never kept or seen one in person. So please don't attack me for my inexperience.

Also Viktor don't you have a topic in tank talk asking advice on identification on fish you own and your tanks are heavily overstocked.

Adrian

[Birger]

It may be right in that it may be a hybrid syno...many hybrid syno's have been sold using that name.

Check the Cat-eLog here between the two species or grab a quick picture if you can and post it in this thread.

I have no problem answering any question(that I can) asked in ernest.
The only bad question is the one not asked.

Birger

[Viktor Jarikov]

Hi Adrian! You are somewhat misunderstanding my message or, quite frankly, it was not worded in the best way - my bad. My major point was that at the face value (just like I said!) of your curt answers, you were coming off as uncooperative.

IMO, the least you could do, perhaps, is explain to the people helping you why can't you/wouldn't you take a photo (having a photo tank is not necessary for that at all) or that you are working on/planning it.

To me, if nothing else, that is a minimum courtesy.

A: So please don't attack me for my inexperience.
VJ: I am sorry my words came off as an attack. I was trying to address the seeming uncooperativeness/lack of feedback, whatever you call it. If you think, I, the greenest novice myself, was criticizing your inexperience, I really screwed up my prior post.

A: Also Viktor don't you have a topic in tank talk asking advice on identification on fish you own and your tanks are heavily overstocked.
VJ: (1) Yes, many topics like that, you are right. (2) Define overstocked. If the fish are thriving and the water quality is excellent - ammonia zero, nitrite zero, nitrate 0-5 ppm, pH 7.2 - steadily, then your assessment of my tank has been made in haste, just as mine was, hopefully, in regards to your communications.

I myself have been told that I am a poor forum communicator by none other but Jools (see the thread "let's help Viktor J become a better forum communicator"), so I guess accept my apologies for the poor choice of words, please.

I did not have to defend Mats and Marc - they can do it by far finer and better than me (you see why now ).

Best wishes,

Viktor

[ad8]

Well I am sorry for misunderstanding your post. I live in an apartment and I have only the 55 gallon which is stocked with driftwood so for me to get a picture I would have to take the wood out of my tank. I only asked one question which was could they swim upside down that was it and I got the answer I was needing. I am experienced when it comes to keeping fish just not rare catfish so when I say I am a novice it is only with catfish which aren't common in the trade. I have been on other forums and I have never been told I don't know how to communicate usually I am pretty good at asking a question and getting the answer I need which I received. I am going to stop responding to this topic but I think you should learn that when it comes to people asking questions on a forum if you aren't going to help them you shouldn't post a reply in the future.

[ad8]

For everyone who was assisting me on this question thank you. I finally got off my lazy rear and removed the fish in question and it is a syno and not a jag so I returned it and informed the staff that it was mislabeled but they didn't do anything as far as removing the label so there will be another innocent victim. So I apologize for wasting anyone's time.

Adrian

[MatsP]

Isn't this what the forum is for, tho'? I mean, it would be rather boring if no one posted questions once in a while...

And technically, common names aren't very regulated, so anyone can call a stripey fish "zebra", and a spotty fish "jaguar". And a syno is definitely a catfish.

Hopefully you can find what you are looking for elsewhere - and now you know at least what they DON'T look like.

--
Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

I am going to stop responding to this topic but I think you should learn that when it comes to people asking questions on a forum if you aren't going to help them you shouldn't post a reply in the future.

Adrian, you may be throwing away baby with the water My first paragraph aimed at helping your original question and the ensued discussion. Granted it was not much but it was as I just said.

My second paragraph, in a really clumsy and awkward way, tried to address the seeming lack of care of what the fish was on your part. I must repeat seeming (that's why the words "superficial" and "face value" were used) and, as proven, wrong. Very wrong. Thank goodness.

You are right. I should have just simply asked "Why won't you take a pic?" and hence, not come off so horribly negative as I did.

I think you should learn that when it comes to people asking questions on a forum if you aren't going to help them you shouldn't post a reply in the future

Amen. Could not agree more. Good lesson for me. Sorry, it had come at your expense, Adrian.

[Proteus]

Calm down everybody its not the true jaguar catfish my local petsmart did the same thing when I was in the store getting white cloud minnows for a client at work.


I was so excited as it was only 7.99 and even had the exact picture along with it.... then I couldn't find any so I asked the lady if they were going to get any more in stock and she said they had two more left and lifted the rock up...



lo and behold... they were synodontis of some sort... I explained to the lady its not the same thing they even had tag for it. NO WHERE resembled a true jaguar catfish.

I'm not a syno person so I cannot tell you if they were jaguar syno or a hybrid of some sort but this one took the cake.

[ad8]

I went to 3 other Petsmarts and had them to pull out a fish and they were all syno's and I explained to all of them it was mislabeled and only one store said they would look into it.

[Marc van Arc]

Well Viktor,
You've done your utmost to apologize and I think that should do.
Marc

[Birger]

I went to 3 other Petsmarts and had them to pull out a fish and they were all syno's and I explained to all of them it was mislabeled and only one store said they would look into it.

Your not going to change the way these places work they write what they are told to write...but the opposite does happen and can be to your benefit, you may very well have gotten a more expensive fish for the price of a guppy...would you have told them then? I have gotten a few fish for decent prices because they were mislabeled or mispriced,it helps to have done your homework.

Birger

[Viktor Jarikov]

I have gotten a few fish for decent prices because they were mislabeled or mispriced

From a chain store, Birger?

[Birger]

I have gotten a few fish for decent prices because they were mislabeled or mispriced

From a chain store, Birger?

From various different places over the years...it is always worth a look if you happen to be nearby, a person can trip across something in the strangest places.

[nvcichlids]

I can second this.. I have gotten a few rare cich lids this way. I went into a walmart to pick up some marbles (for a craft project for my wife...) and I ALWAYS look through their tanks. They had a fish labeled as a Hybrid... now hmm... since when is a geophagus red tapajos a hybrid? I looked at it, and it had all the signs of the correct ID by me.. and I took a picture via phone and asked a couple friends and they confirmed. I then asked the employee why it was labeled as "Hybrid" and they said ebcause it came in with salvini's and oscars and it clearly wasn't one..

If it was THAT easy to make a geophagus, I would have done it years ago.. anyways I took that fish home for $2 @3". We have also gotten some electric blue rams from a walmart. They were listed as the standard ram which were $4 each. Well I got a bag of 8 for $4 because the first person who caught them didn't know how to mark the bag, and the cashier didn't care (and I clearly pointed out the mistake...)


and as far as Petsmarts go, they DO get in TRUE jaguar cats... but I have only found one between 20 stores. the little 3" was added to my group for $20 (which is what the store was selling it for...)

[Viktor Jarikov]

Nice. Helpful!

If it was THAT easy to make a geophagus, I would have done it years ago..

and as far as Petsmarts go, they DO get in TRUE jaguar cats... but I have only found one between 20 stores. the little 3" was added to my group for $20 (which is what the store was selling it for...)

Really!? Wow. Is this a highly, highly rare occurrence you think? Labeled/ID-ed right too, no error on the seller's part? The price is roughly fair though, is it not?

[grokefish]

I have gotten a few fish for decent prices because they were mislabeled or mispriced

From a chain store, Birger?

I have got some Real gems in the past from stupid chain store aquatic shops.

[nvcichlids]

Nice. Helpful!

If it was THAT easy to make a geophagus, I would have done it years ago..

and as far as Petsmarts go, they DO get in TRUE jaguar cats... but I have only found one between 20 stores. the little 3" was added to my group for $20 (which is what the store was selling it for...)

Really!? Wow. Is this a highly, highly rare occurrence you think? Labeled/ID-ed right too, no error on the seller's part? The price is roughly fair though, is it not?

The price to me was way more than fair. I do, however, feel it is a rare occurance. I have had friends all over the US check their petsmarts for them and would then have them ship them to me and no one else has found any.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I do, however, feel it is a rare occurance. I have had friends all over the US check their petsmarts for them and would then have them ship them to me and no one else has found any.

Well, what a brilliant example of catfish marketing research!

The price to me was way more than fair.

I bought two trade-ins, about 6" TL each for $50 each from "Pets Plus" in Lockport (Buffalo), NY. Excellent shape both.

[PlecoCrazy]

I was at petsmart a couple of days ago and they updated their labels. Their tank is now labeled Hybrid "Jaguar" Catfish. It then shows its a mix between a multi and a decorus right on the label. Its sad enough to see hybrid's but when one of the largest chain stores are selling them, that just stinks.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Yes but it is a wonderful step in the right direction. It shows that even bigbox stores care and can be made change their ways.

The next step would be to post a short description of how hybrids are produced next to the label but no one would buy the fish then... so the next step is to educate the public in some other way.

[Bijn]

Part of the problem is that store's can't just send some fishes back to the wholesaler when they deliver hybrids instead of the pure species they ordered.


and what is the best option once you have those hybrids in your shop?
-kill them
-sell them as pure species
-sell them as hybrids
-...

[nicofish]

alas another person with a jaguar catfish im jealus. well you arent the only on ewho says they boughtthem from petsmart ive seen some vids on youtube. however I myself a frequenter of petstores have never seen one, but synodontis nigriventris which is the "upsidown catfish" they almost always have stocked.


I think its ok I have a stopped raphy cat which I bought a while ago (his name is raphito)I wont go into his story but I loves bein upsidown in caves so I wouldent worry too much.

reagardless of what you got take care of him and have fun with him.

do a little research it isnt hard to tell synodonis apart from other catifish