New Ageneiosus cf. atronasus behave weird + continuation

[Acanthicus]

Hey,

yesterday I got my A. cf. atronasus after weeks of looking forward to them.

I released them into the tank at 2 am today. In the morning I saw 4 of 7 swimming around in a group like I expected them to do. The other 3 were just sitting on the bottom, doing nothing. One didn´t look good to me, it was laying at the side and breathing really, really calm. Due to my waterchanging day which is today, I changed about 15l (tank is ca. 50l). The water was a bit colder, but not more than 1 °C. It is now at 25 - 26 °C. Same temperature they were kept before by the dealer.
Now, they are all laying around in the tank and breathing very calm.

Anything I did wrong? These are my first Auchenepteriids and I really don´t wanna loose them that fast.


Pictures to come!

cheers, Daniel

[Marc van Arc]

Daniel,
Don't worry. This is normal Ageneiosus/auchenipterid behaviour afaics.
Pictures will tell more of course, but again: nothing to worry about ime.

[Acanthicus]

Thanks for the reply, I was really worried.

This is the tank, The light is off at the moment to reduce stress.
Tankmates are two Hypostomus ancistroides. They are ok.

[Marc van Arc]

Looks fine to me.
Also, bear in mind mine have white spots (no Ich!) on occassion. Don't get scared and do not treat with medication, as this has turned out to be perfectly harmless ime.
Resting on the side or even on the back is perfectly normal for auchenipterids; you'd better get used to it
The same goes for breathing slowly btw.
Feeding is no problem as these are the first Ageneiosus I know of that will take flakes without hesitation.
Good luck and keep us informed. And if in doubt, just ask.

[Acanthicus]

Unfortunately I lost one yesterday, the smallest one. The others seem to be ok, I saw some of them eating yesterday. I think and hope the one was just a "normal death" caused by stress, the new tank and that stuff.

Really interesting catfish! So different than the ones I´ve kept before.

[Marc van Arc]

If it's any comfort, one of my three new specimens also died within a few weeks without any apparent reason. That scared me, yet the other two have been doing fine since.

[Acanthicus]

Thanks Marc. As I said, I don´t think it´s something serious.






The position of the eyes is comparable to Hypoptopoma.

[Acanthicus]

I found a second dead one today, damn. Don´t know whats wrong. Yesterday I did another waterchange. When the last one died I did a waterchange too. Maybe something about the water doesn´t fit. The H. ancistroides in the same tank behave perfectly normal, so do all the other catfish. I didn´t test the water for years now.

[Marc van Arc]

Daniel,
I'm very sorry to hear this. I haven't thought of this before, but ime most auchenipterids don't fancy frequent large waterchanges.
I change about 25% - 30% per month and have been doing so for many years.
The last time I had to do a huge change (because of a new tank) I immediately lost my Tetranematichthys.
Hope this is any good.

[Acanthicus]

This is really helpful, cause it could be the answer. I always prefered big waterchanges due to the growing and the health of the plecos, but maybe this sort of catfish is more different than I thought. I changed about 50% two times during one week now, ....


Thanks, and Merry Christmas to everybody reading,
Daniel

[Acanthicus]

Hey,

last week I settled in 20 Neon Tetras, they are almost all gone now. The Ageneiosus seem to be great.
But I will have to think about something else I can feed them as livefood, tetras will get to expensive.


Have a great evening today!

[Marc van Arc]

You could start breeding guppies and/or other livebearers. That works for me.
Btw: this species has finally reached the Netherlands -).

[Acanthicus]

Great to hear! How many did you get?

Guppies were my first idea too, and I think it will end with a dozen of them.

[Marc van Arc]

Great to hear! How many did you get?

None so far, as they were only imported last week by Ruinemans. Still in doubt if I should enlarge my current group (from OF), also based on the fact that they miss the "cf" in their name, which could imply they're something different. I should have a picture actually.
And of course the LFS has to order....

[Acanthicus]

If I understood Dave right, the fish called A. cf. atronasus are pretty sure the "real" ones. There was something about the unsecured origin of the holotype. Unfortunately I can´t find the PM now. So the "cf." might not be seen that important by everyone.

[sidguppy]

Oliver Frank is pretty liberal with labeling fish as "cf".

it's not wrong per se, but it can be confusing.
he's likely doing it because he doesn't know for sure the species name, but i think it's too confusing, since he's a trader, not an ichthyologist.

there's a lot of fish from his list that do perfectly without the "cf".
among these is the Ageneiosus

I think you can safely assume that a rare previously not imported species that turns up at OF aquaristics, Glaser and Ruijnemans all in the same short period is that same species.

[Marc van Arc]

there's a lot of fish from his list that do perfectly without the "cf".
among these is the Ageneiosus

I think it's the other way round: I think they've taken PC as a reference and the species is here labelled as A. cf. atronasus.
If I read Walsh correctly, the real atronasus should have a dark >-shape in the tail. Thus I'd expect the Ageneiosus sp. blue that Pier had to be the real atronasus.
However, I must admit these matters remain very difficult - hence Richard's specimens.....

[sojapat]

Hi Daniel , I would increase the amount of air in the water (not from venturi's)air pump or pump water above and let it splash back in
The tank looks a little tanned what is the PH,They dont like it low these are river fish (white water)Ph pretty stable above 6.5.
If they dropped of quickly these are what you should look at first .

[Acanthicus]

Hi,

the pH is near the neutral point. And I raised the amount of air as well. The Ageneiosus behave like they did before.

Resuming the last month I am kind of disappointed, but actually I don´t know of what.

I lost 2 specimens for sure, haven´t seen one the last days and another one looks pretty skinny. I stopped the water changes, after I realized that I killed the two with this. They hide the whole day, the light is turned off. But thats no problem for me. I am really used to fish I don´t see regularly. But normally I know that they are allright and feel comfortable. In the beginnig I thought they would be fine with red mosquito larvas, artemia and neon tetras. But I am not sure now. The first 20 tetras got eaten quite fast. So, I bought another 30 tetras today and I hope this will change things.


cheers, Daniel

[Acanthicus]

It looks like I´ve got three left. Some tetras are missing and the bellys look very full.

[Marc van Arc]

It looks like I´ve got three left. Some tetras are missing and the bellys look very full.

Three left from the initial group of seven?

[Acanthicus]

Unfortunately yes....
I lost two after the first two waterchanges. Now I know why. I didn´t find any dead ones the last days, so I can´t say if there are really only three left. But I don´t see more than three at one time, even if I am searching intensive. I know they are catfish and love hiding and that stuff. Possibly they are just very good in hiding, better than all my loricariids. They might be sitting in a corner I can´t look into.

[Marc van Arc]

I know they are catfish and love hiding and that stuff. Possibly they are just very good at hiding, better than all my loricariids. They might be sitting in a corner I can´t look into.

I wouldn't write those missing 2 specimens off yet, because of the above reasons. They are good at hiding and/or not showing themselves. Once settled - which may take some time - you'll get to see them when you add food to the tank.
Speaking of which: mine take flakes. Perhaps you could try that too. Just a small portion when night feeding.

[Acanthicus]

Hi,

just a minute after I posted that above I saw number four. So I guess number five is still alive as well. I feel like a newbie with his first fish....

[Marc van Arc]

I feel like a newbie with his first fish....

Welcome to the world of woodcats

[wrasse]

I use a powerhead to provide current and oxygenation in my ageneiosus tank, in addition to an outlet from a sump filter and a large air-powered sponge filter.
A few days ago the powerhead slipped down the tank - I need to replace the suckers - and when I discovered it all my ageneiosus were sat on the bottom at the back of the tank. Panic stations! I refitted the powerhead and also put in an old internal power filter. I decided not to do anything else, like a water change etc. By the next day all the ageneiosus were swimming mid-water as normal, also the 2 L273 they share their tank with were much more active.
When it slipped it was still working, so the current was still there, but it wasn't mixing with air. Combined with the oxygen-depleted water return from the sump, it totalled less air mixing with water = less oxygen.
It has shown me that both species need very oxygen-rich water to be happy. I thought I was providing it, but adding the extra internal has boosted them greatly.
I also wish they would invent better suckers!!!
So maybe, Acanthicus, you might see more of your Ageneiosus if you create more oxygen in the tank.

Richard

[Acanthicus]

Hi Richard,

I´m gonna do some changes tomorrow and will try to get more oxygen into the water. Thanks!

[Acanthicus]

Hi,

@Richard: At what temperature do you run the tank? I thought the Ageneiosus would prefer cooler water, about 24 - 25°C.

Yesterday I added an additional pump to the tank. The two filters together produce a constant current with more air coming in, but not to strong. Today I have been at OF again and purchased the last Ageneiosus atronasus. Now as I know how to keep them everything should be fine.

The tetras get less every day.

[wrasse]

@Richard: At what temperature do you run the tank? I thought the Ageneiosus would prefer cooler water, about 24 - 25°C.

Mine are kept at 28degC/82degF. They have grown well at this temperature, from about 5cm to the biggest one being 13-14cm now.
What made you think they prefer cooler water?
At certain times of the year your temp is perhaps where it should be. To breed atronasus I'm sure temp is very relevant.
I think while your fish are new, slightly warmer water would help them adjust.

[Acanthicus]

Hi,

the temperature in the cat e-log for A. marmoratus and A. magoi says 23 - 26 °C and 23 - 30 °C, so I thought A. ageneiosus needs lower temperatures as well.

They are now all swimming in the current, right in front of the pump. They seem to feel much better with the additional current. =)


cheers,