Tiger spitting food out.

[ROV1]

Hi to all,

This is first post so here goes..
One of my two TNC catfish is spitting out his/her food. The other similar sized (24") TNC eats everything and all and if anything is slightly overweight.There other tank mate a 24" Silver Arowana is also doing very well.

I mention the other occupants as since they are doing fine I was hoping the water Para's are good.The tank/pond holds approx 3250liter's

Am out of my home Country but my Wife tells me the water temp is 23deg and the Nitrite test 0. The PH is to high just now @8.5 and I know the water is soft

The fish in question has in the past only eaten fresh shrimp and live fresh crabs but now spits these out. When introduced 3months ago there were some small fish (Local cichlids)these have been eaten so may be holding out for feeders. The fish is still on the move and follows it's friend around as if in love so appears happy.

This is the third day without food and am concerned as I will not be home for two weeks. If it had something stuck in it's mouth I would expect some shaking of the head but it does not.

Any thoughts very much appreciated.

[Shane]

This is, infortunately, a common occurance in the larger pimelodids. A quick search of the forum will turn up a dozen postings similar to your case. The truth is that no one is realy sure why these fish will sometimes just begin refusing foods.
The good news is that if the fish is not sick (and yours appears in good health) it will eventually start eating again. Sometimes they may go several days without feeding and sometimes 2-3 weeks. Then suddenly they get their appetite back.
I am not sure how often you are feeding, but at 24" I would only be feeding the fish every 2-3 days. At that size they are more like keeping a large constrictor snake like a Boa. They need one large meal every few days instead of constant small meals.
Your fish could easily go a month or even two without eating and remain healthy. The only thing you can really do at this point is to make sure you are not overfeeding, and accidently polluting the pond, until the fish resumes eating.
-Shane

[ROV1]

Thank you Shane,

That's put my mind at rest. They are in 13,250 liters and seem very happy never seen two fish behave like they do.They seem to almost play with each other.

The fish babysitter has been advised already.

Dave.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Welcome, Dave!

I second all that Shane, a far, far more senior, knowledgeable, and experienced fish-keeper than me, said. I fed my big ones (2'-4' TL) once in 4-7 days til their tummies were well rounded.

My many big fish do this sometimes too. It could be a slight bacterial infection they are coping with or a parasite, or water quality/temp change, or they may swallow something undigestable, like a piece of plastic sack, and are struggling to pass it, or a prickly fish goes in the wrong way, etc. It can go on for a week. IME, the max was ~5 months and the fish rebounded just fine, like nothing happened.

Is it 3250 l or 13,250 l??

Keeping track of temp, nitrite, and pH is good, but also one is well advised to test for ammonia and nitrate and make sure to use a good test kit (e.g., liquid API test) and a fresh kit (tests have a shelf life). Not test strips, IMO. For instance, high nitrate levels are blamed for a lazy intestine and the resulting floating syndrome in goldfish.

It is a bit strange/unusual your water is soft and alkaline, usually water is hard and alkaline or soft and acidic.

My many TSNs (Tiger ShovelNoses) used to eat every kind of food, even pellets, but relished anything meaty the most.

Holding out for feeders is a good guess.

An occurrence like that is a good time to thoroughly analyze your water and reconsider/check everything that's happening in and around your tank to make sure you don't miss something that may eventually wipe out more fish or the entire tank.

[ROV1]

Hi Victor,

Very good advise as well.

The water comes from the local small reservoir and I assume it's soft due to the soap reaction in the bathroom. Living in Thailand I cannot get all the test kits I need but have made steps to get GH,KH,ammonia and nitrate sent in.Managed to get Tetra nitrite kit from a huge outdoor fish and aquarium market in Bangkok. This an amazing place you can walk around for a whole day and not see it all will send some pictures.

The pond is 13,250 liters turned over in less than 1hour through two filters.Unfortunately I made a bad decision and only sealed the base and not the inner walls so have some leaching hence high PH. When I last left the UK I checked in 7liters of A1 pond paint so I will be busy on that soon.

My fishsitter is changing 10% every week bless her and after the last change was advised the smaller TSN took two prawns.

The pond is very under stocked and I want it correct before the big RTC arrives so thank you for the kind advise.

Dave.

[TheFishGuy]

I'm interested in the size of this pond, I'd love to see pictures and love to hear more information on it. It sounds great!

As for your PH concerns, I wouldn't be too concerned. My ph here is 8.1 ish and have had zero issues in the past 8 years.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Jonathan, I think it is this one but Dave will confirm, I am sure. http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/my_ ... =ROV1#2615

Sounds excellent, Dave. When you will be sealing up the walls, what will you do with the fish and how will you keep your filter bacteria alive and well? I'm sure you have a plan. Merely curious.

Ah, now I understand your statement about water hardness and pH. Even if your incoming water is soft, it turns hard in the concrete pond as chemicals are leaching out of the unsealed portions.

I have no experience with this situation, but maybe your small TSN issues are related to that too. Most of the Amazonia has a soft and acidic water. TSNs are adaptable but it takes time and there is a limit to that adaptability. Also, of course, it depends where your TSNs came from: whether wild-caught or farm-raised and if farm-raised, they might have been reared in acidic or alkaline, soft or hard water and be accustomed to that already... or not...

[TheFishGuy]

Cool, I like it. Hopefully nothing gets spooked and jumps like what happened to one of my tsns

[ROV1]

The plan is to put the cats in one of two 150gall plastic holding tanks the arowana,Oscar and barbs x4 in the other.I will keep half of the original water in our spare drinking water tank.The two pond filters will be kept alive by setting them up in each holding tank.
The paint(A1 pond paints UK) will adhere to a slightly damp surface and after two coats should be able to refill in four days.

Fishguy your comment on jumping out is a real worry but any sort of cover will spoil the look. They do appear calm and have plenty space. If we sit on the edge the TSN's come right up to you and look for food so we are making sure they are not "spooked"

I did consider getting the local Giant Asia Snakehead but think this would jump out within ten minutes so will give that monster a miss am sure my Oscar would agree with this.

I start the pond repair in about one week fingers crossed they will be fine its got to be done.

Dave.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I saw no statistics on TSNs jumping out of tanks. Mine never attempted that in my presence (in a 40'x6'x2.5' pond in Rochester, NY. When I was not there in the basement, the net was always placed over the top. My silver aros did jump sometimes, mostly shortly after introduction.

Jonathan TheFishGuy's ~2-foot TSN jumped out of his 1200 gal tank and killed itself (or was it 800 gal back then, Jonathan?). But this is the only occurrence I know of.

Especially when in small quarters, most big fish will try to bail. My RTCs and alligator gars tried that, for instance.

You have to be careful. What if a bird (heron or fishing eagle) flies by/lands? What if kids/dogs/intruders/racoons get in there? I bet Aro will jump. TSNs may too. If it was up to me, I'd install some kind of netting. I 100% see your point that aesthetics will suffer tremendously but to me losing fish is worse. You, needless to say, have to weight your pros and cons for yourself.

I'd not rush the painting process under any circumstances but rather give it more time than needed by instructions. Better safe than sorry. And I'd wash the pond and drain the water several times and then use a tester fish for at least 2-3 days first before letting others back in.

[Viktor Jarikov]

How is it going, Dave?

[ROV1]

Viktor,

Sorry for late reply. During the pond repair I lost a few fish.Silver Shark x2 and some Tinfoils. Good news is both TSC and the Silver Arowana are back in the now repaired pond and feeding very well. It took just over a week(plus Nightshift) to empty,strip and paint x3 coats of the excellent A1 pond Paint.

I used approx 30% of the original water and topped up with local reservoir water (PH7.2) Once full I tested the water and put back the still active filters and found the PH still at 8.4. Some head scratching followed and I realized that during 3months of the year there is much burning of sugar cane and once I tested the ash that falls out of the sky this is whats driving up the PH. Have now added a screen above the pond to keep the ash out and will be adding some dried/rinsed coconut shells to the filter and slowly push down the PH.These are a plenty here and seem to hold a huge amount of tannin.

Recent water test had Ph 8.1 KH 3deg, Nitrite zero ammonia nil so hope the low KH will not fight the PH push down as carrying out huge water changes in my small village is not really acceptable.

Recently added a 11in RTC and just to show the character of these fish within three days he was pushing a TSC three times his size out of the way for food. Other additions 10in Black Shark,6x 6inch Silver sharks,2x common Plec's 10inch.

So all is well just now will send picture of pond soon.

Best Rgds.
Dave.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Excellent analytical work, Dave. Now let's see if that indeed was the source of high pH. I thought you had said that the reservoir water's pH is at 7.2 but would not the ash also fall into that too?

Tannin is an acid indeed but it is also yellow-to-brown-to-black (depending on concentration in the water). There are many ways of acidifying water, some purely chemical, some biological.

What fish are you calling a Silver Shark - an iridescent shark

Pangasianodon hypophthalmus

?

Exciting new fishes. Keep an eye on that Black shark (if we are talking about the same fish - Labeo chrysophekadion). I was told by others they are extremely aggressive and can (and will) kill everything in their tank. It may sound excessively dramatic and I'm sure it depends... but they do grow to 2 feet.