Byebye rio Xingu

Post by **Dinyar** » 16 Oct 2003, 05:59

Wall Street Journal wrote:Mr. da Silva chilled environmentalists last month when he unveiled his $66 billion, four-year infrastructure-development plan. The "Brazil for Everyone" program includes plans to double the current generating capacity of the TucuruÃ hydroelectric project in the eastern Amazon, as well as a review of a long-shelved plan to build the $4 billion Belo Monte dam. Located on the Xingu River, Belo Monte would be the third-largest hydroelectric project in the world in terms of power generated, and would entail the flooding of roughly 155 square miles, about half of which would be the river bed itself.

RogerMcAllen · Post by **RogerMcAllen** » 16 Oct 2003, 06:11

I assume that they will hold their strick export policy so that the species can't be taken out and saved through captive breeding?

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 16 Oct 2003, 16:38

Hi!

I found this link which describes what could happen:
http://www.amazonwatch.org/amazon/BR/bmd/

Very sad indeed

doctorzeb · Post by **doctorzeb** » 16 Oct 2003, 17:28

Quote from Article above.

"Even before the project received its first license, Electronorte had already reached agreement with the state governor on its compensation package for local authorities. Critics also decried the narrow geographical focus, limited scientific scope and superficial analytical methods of the dam's EIA. Moreover, there were no consultation mechanisms in place for affected populations. "

So even beforer they understand the full consequences of the events, they have decided what compensatory requirements are suitable. A "superficial" Environmental Impact Assessment, is there only attmept at weighing up the possible impacts. God that p*sses me off. Yet if asked for justification, they would say it is "to meet increasing demands" of a country "progressing". MAD< MAD < MAD<MAD!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, this type of thing really gets me wound up. People spend years fighting for legislation and regulatory requirements, only to have them "bought out" of a descision!

doctorzeb · Post by **doctorzeb** » 16 Oct 2003, 17:31

check this out

http://www.redlisted.com/brazil_belomonte.html

Post by **Silurus** » 16 Oct 2003, 17:36

Here is the same old story on a different continent.

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 16 Oct 2003, 17:38

Hi!

Considering that there is a need for electricity...nobody wouldve protested if electronorte had built 5 nuclearpowerplants at the banks of xingÃº.

But ive seen effects of dams during my stay in Prague where we observed the vltava (Moldau) river basin which has (i think) 5-7 dams...and thats in a country where the fauna/flora isnt as specialized as in Para...

doctorzeb · Post by **doctorzeb** » 16 Oct 2003, 17:41

The frustrating thing is that there's bugger all we can do about IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God, you can't build a house here if they find a naterjack toad spawning on the site, yet with the right influence and money you can destroy centuries of human civilisation and milleniums of natural evolution!!!!!!!!!!!!

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 16 Oct 2003, 17:42

well crap...

I suppose it's time to stock up on zebra, sunshine and other plecos, glad I've got my P. leopoldi already... they've been tough enough to come by... wait till this goes down.

and boliva is ruining their rivers in another way...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... adung.html

doctorzeb · Post by **doctorzeb** » 16 Oct 2003, 17:45

This topic is getting hotter than the "beer we Like"!!!!!!!!!

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 16 Oct 2003, 17:48

what can we do? heh, I do believe this quote shows what happens to opposition

"The undeclared resource war being waged in the Amazon against opponents of industrial mega-projects has cost the lives of six activists in the last three months. Among them was Belo Monte's most prominent critic, Ademir Alfeu Federicci (known as Dema), shot dead on 25 August 2001. Dema was an outspoken leader of the Movement for the Development of the Transamazon and Xingu (MDTX), a broad-based grassroots forum against the Belo Monte dam. Dema recently denounced corruption among Xingu politicians and government officials who stand to gain from Electronorte's compensation payments. "

Post by **Silurus** » 16 Oct 2003, 17:51

Just to make sure we've covered all the continents (at least those that matter most to us):

http://allafrica.com/stories/200309250229.html

Post by **Dinyar** » 16 Oct 2003, 18:23

S. Allen wrote:what can we do?

Actually, there are many small things that all of us can do. For example, write your congressman, write James Wolfensohn (President of the World Bank), identify and make a small contribution to NGOs opposed to this kind of thing, ask your child's teacher if you can do a show-and tell on biodiversity in her class. The other day some well-meaning adult asked my 4-year old daughter what she wanted to do when she grew up. She said "save all the wild animals that bad people are killing."

There is no guarantee that a dozen of us from the Planet Catfish forums alone will make a difference, but we can only change the world one heart and one mind at a time.

Dinyar

polkadot · Post by **polkadot** » 17 Oct 2003, 00:08

Where are the voices from the environmentalists?

flyinmike · Post by **flyinmike** » 17 Oct 2003, 01:02

S. Allen wrote:well crap...

I suppose it's time to stock up on zebra, sunshine and other pl*cos, glad I've got my P. leopoldi already... they've been tough enough to come by... wait till this goes down.

and boliva is ruining their rivers in another way...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... adung.html

What other Plecs hail from the Xingu. I have MTS (multi tank syndrome) and my main interest has been of course plecos though I haven't tried to concentrate on a particular area. Maybe the Xingu would be a good place to start. I have a male sunshine and am looking for a female already. Of course who doesn't want the zebra!

flyinmike · Post by **flyinmike** » 17 Oct 2003, 01:06

Dinyar, or anyone, I hope this is not too dumb of a question but what does "NGO's" stand for?

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 17 Oct 2003, 01:09

NGO=Non-Governmental-Organisations
The Red Cross for example

flyinmike · Post by **flyinmike** » 17 Oct 2003, 01:17

Aaaaaahh. I get it. Thanks. See, I learned something else on P.C.

MC · Post by MC » 17 Oct 2003, 02:15

doctorzeb wrote:This topic is getting hotter than the "beer we Like"!!!!!!!!!

Warm beer - no comment!

polkadot wrote:Where are the voices from the environmentalists?

For some reason, as long as trees aren't getting cut down, or terestrial animals or oceanic animals are not involved, they seem to stay away in droves.

Even environmentalists need electricity. Which is rather sad.

Once extremely large infrastructure decisions are made by governments there are very few ways to stop it. To be quite honest, I very much doubt some letters to a politician in your own country will have any effect whatsoever. In principle it seems like a good idea, in reality the effect is useless. However, the UN might be a better place to direct your letters.

I am interested for someone to elaborate on how making a donation to a NGO will help the situation in question.

IMO most NGO's a very beaurocratic and political and seem to compete, which a) wastes time, b) wastes any resources they aquire and c) while they are fighting with each other, the good intent they had intended on passing on to their chosen cause is no longer required.

Please do not misunderstand or misinterpret my last statement/paragraph. Alot of the organisations work relentlessly and are simply awe inspiring in what they achieve. I just feel that some of these NGO's would have more of an effect by pooling their resources.

Environmental impact assessment my butt. An environmental impact assessment of an area the size they are proposing would take years to prepare if done properly.

It actually doesn't make me mad, more sad then anything, that another area yet to be fully explored (bio-diversitywise) is now going to be altered in such a manner.

Anyone for a quick game of Dam-busters?

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 17 Oct 2003, 02:38

fly in mike... those are species I keep at this point endemic to xingu.

Potamotrygon leopldi

Hypancistrus zebra

Scobinancistrus areatus

Pseudacanthicus sp. L025

Peckoltia sp L015

Just look through aqualog's all L-Numbers, seems like one xingu pleco per page, maybe more. Gold nugget plecos, excluding L177(upstream in rio iriri, possibly would be effected as well?), L047, L066, L082...

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 17 Oct 2003, 02:46

Hi!

Even environmentalists need electricity. Which is rather sad.

Funny to say that on an online forum where i bet my a** that im not the only guy having an electricity and water bill that would be good for a small village in brasil...but discussing our system makes no sense of course cauz we can't change it.

A feeling that i have is that europeans are busy in front of their own door, with the transition countries and the magreb that its maybe just the distance? Not really thought about that much before...
Lets just hope that Dinyars little daughter has something to save in 20 years...thinking about it how strange will it be when i tell my kids in 10 years when we visit the zoo...standing next to the extinct in the wild sign: "thats a lion, daddy saw those live in Africa 30 years ago..."

doctorzeb · Post by **doctorzeb** » 17 Oct 2003, 10:40

Where are the voices from the environmentalists?

All the environmentalists are overruled from the descision, as shown by the production of a half hearted EIA. At the beggining of the year, the Government STOPPED the EIA dead in it's tracks!!! In cases such as these the environmentalists don't have enough money or prower to be sufficiently corrupt to make a difference!!!!!