Mycosis/ columnaris on L. oncinus

[kiwidu21]

Hello my Liosomadoras oncinus appears to have mycosis. Was is the treatement to use in this situation ? The salt treatement to 3g/l is inefficacious.

[TwoTankAmin]

Columnaris comes in different strains. Some are mild and easier to cure, others are extremely virulent and kill fast. There are a variety of treatments but I am not at all up on what can be obtained in France. The information below should help. What it boils down to is columnaris is a double edged problem. Because it can and does survive well outside of fish and those which die in tanks from it are major transmitters, one has to consider how to kill this disease both in a fish and then in the tank itself. As you will see from the below information there can be issues. For antibiotics to be effective, they must be eaten- really sick fish stop eating. To kill the disease outside of the fish, the best solution is actually a weed killer. I do not know if you can find that in France.

Finally, I have always looked to the science for help with these sort of issues. To find the science I rely on Google Scholar. This is a search which only reviews scientific literature. I have learned more on Google Scholar regarding things aquarium/fish than on regular Google. I should warn that the terms one uses on Google Scholar will be a lot different than on the Google most are used to. Science does not use the same language as the rest of us, you need to know what terms to enter. For example, you cannot search for "Ich," you must search for "Ichthyophthirius multifiliis."

Abstract
Columnaris disease was induced in channel catfish, Ictalurus punctatus (Rafinesque), by bath exposure to four highly virulent isolates of Flavobacterium columnare. In untreated controls, mortality began 20 h after exposure and reached 100% by 48 h. Mortality in channel catfish given antibiotic treatments with oxytetracycline or a combination of sulphadimethoxine and ormetoprim in feed prior to bacterial challenge was zero with all four strains of F. columnare. Diquat (Zeneca Agricultural Products, Wilmington, DE, USA) was the most effective bath treatment; mortality with all four strains was zero. With potassium ermanganate, chloramine-T, hydrogen peroxide and copper sulphate, bath treatment efficacy varied significantly among strains (P ¼ 0.0346) and among treatments (P ¼ 0.0033). Bath treatments with chloramine-T and potassium permanganate significantly reduced (P < 0.05) mortality from 100 to 75 and 69%, respectively, but copper sulphate and hydrogen peroxide treatments were not effective. Based on
our results, oral antibiotics prevented columnaris disease but, of the bath treatments, only Diquat
produced a dramatic reduction in the mortality of acutely infected fish. Diquat is labelled for aquatic
use as an herbicide in the USA but in large ponds it is prohibitively expensive.

from https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sw ... 000000.pdf

Then there is this:

Third, antibiotic treatments are used at farms to control for mortality caused by bacterial diseases. Antibiotics are administered into a tank whenever fish with columnaris disease are detected. Treatment is effective only when the antibiotic is consumed by fish (with fish food). Diseased and moribund fish cease feeding, so that the treatment neither affects the bacteria in them, nor can it affect the bacteria present in the water or in the fish already dead. Therefore, strains that infect and kill their hosts rapidly are most likely to survive the treatment. Also quick degradation of tissue might be favoured: fish tissue detached from host is not affected by antibiotics, either. The antibiotic treatment was only started after 1992 and usage increased since then (figure 1d). So far, F. columnare strains resistant to oxytetracyclin have not been found (P. Koski, Finnish Food Safety Authority, Oulu 2009, personal communication). Selection by oxytetracyclin may have favoured F. columnare strains with most severe symptoms (gill necrosis, killing quickly), that by the time the outbreak was noticed and the antibiotic treatment applied, the bacterium had already escaped into an antibiotic-free niche.

(The bolding is mine)
from http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/ ... 1/593.full

Mycosis is a fungal issue and would have to be dealt with differently. Normally, fungal issues are a secondary problem. For example a wound on a fish will offer a way for a fungus to set in. Here is some basic info that should help. But from your pictures, I am not sure the problem is fungal. Have a read here http://aquafind.com/articles/Fungal-Dis ... f-Fish.php Look for the section on Saprolegniasis.

Good luck with it.

[kiwidu21]

In France, we use "malachite green" but I dont know if it dangerous for catfish. Or JBL and others brands sell treatement but it is not necessarily effective.
I read species description in Google Scholar but I dont that it is use to diseases.
Can vitamin supplement help him ?
What his weed killer ?

[TwoTankAmin]

You cannot kill columnaris with heat, salt etc. Feeding antibiotics can help infected fish. Thanks to Google translate, weed killer = Tueur de mauvaises herbes.

I was aware of using Diquat from my days on the wild angel site. Columnaris is somewhat common in altum angels which have been recently imported. These fish come from very low pH water which means two things. many bacteria can not do well or live in acid water. But this also means that altums, because they are not exposed to many bacterial pathogens, have weakened immune systems. Columnaris is a common problem.

The info on the angel site linked to one of the studies I listed in my post above. Here is another search page to check out re Diquat https://search.usa.gov/search?utf8=%E2% ... mit=Search You will find this link on that page http://www.fws.gov/fisheries/aadap/inad ... otocol.pdf That paper offers dosing ideas

Anecdotal observations by hatchery managers throughout the United States indicate that
Diquat treatment is also an effective method of controlling BGD and flavobacteriosis in a
variety of fish species. General recommendations for cool and warmwater species
include immersion treatment at 6-28 mg/L for 1-4 hours (personal communication, Larry
Willis, ILDNR). Diquat has also been used to treat salmonids at 2 ppm for 1 hr (Warren,
1981). These anecdotal observations are supported by data that has been collected
under Diquat INAD 8110, which has been held by the State of Illinois since the 1980's.
Diquat use under INAD 8110 has been reported to be very effective, and to have a high
margin of safety (personal communication, Larry Willis, ILDNR).

As a final info source try googling "Columnaris and Diquat." You will find more info including this paper https://www.fws.gov/fisheries/aadap/ina ... on/diquat/ It also gives some dosing level information.

[kiwidu21]

Thank you, this is that I have comprise but it is not Dangerous to introduce a weed killer in tank ? My catfish is in very bad healthy, can he endure this treatement ?
I can buy diquad dibromide but it arise from USA so it is minimum 2 weeks before it arrive.

[TwoTankAmin]

In this hobby we are often forced to use a medication solution using a product not intended for such use. Look a how we may use an animal dewormer because it is shown to the best option even though it is for mammals not fish.

The problem is the meds that can cure your fish, if they are eating, will not work to eliminate the problem from remaining in the tank to reinfect. Antibiotics seem not to work against columnaris in the water or in dead fish. Apparently, the diquat will work both on the water an on the fish as well.

The next problem is 2 weeks may be too late. If your fish are still eating I would go for the medicated food route. If you cannot find a commercial product, you can make your own medicated food if you can find the meds. "So far, F. columnare strains resistant to oxytetracyclin have not been found (P. Koski, Finnish Food Safety Authority, Oulu 2009, personal communication)." Can you get oxytetracyclin?

I actually have sinking sticks w/oxytetracycline which I bought in advance of having 100 wc hypancistrus arrive. I got it here http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-suppli ... -25mm.html I do not know if he ships to Europe and even if he does it would not be fast. Getting in a "weed killer" may be easier than something containing and actual medication. I suggest you see if you can find this antibiotic in France, if you can you can make your own medicated food.

[kiwidu21]

Waiting to this food arrive, what do I can to help my liosomadoras ?

[kiwidu21]

My catfish is dead.

[TwoTankAmin]

I am sorry to hear that. But, I would make two observations here which both point to the same advice. First, it is important to treat the tank, imo. It may also be wise to feed medicated food to the other fish in the tank, just in case. So you need to get the right meds.

Even if the treatment is actually not needed now (and there is no way to know for sure), it is still a good idea to have these meds on hand as there is no guarantee you wont need them at some time in the future.