Worms!!

ChrisB · Post by **ChrisB** » 08 Jan 2005, 01:27

today I noticed hundreds of white 2 mm worms wiggling around in my tank. what are these they look like tink strings. I have two motoro rays in the tank and i dont want the worm to harm them. my only thought is that the worms could be the offspring of the live earthworms i feed them? any ideas???

Fish Demon · Post by **Fish Demon** » 08 Jan 2005, 01:32

They are most likely planaria.

These worm most often occur when you are feeding too much or the water quality is not what it should be... Do you have your water parameters?

ChrisB · Post by **ChrisB** » 08 Jan 2005, 08:46

I'm pretty sure that it isn't planaria they look almost nothing alike.

since rays require excellent water quality I do a 30% water change every weekend and 15-20% midweek. the amonia is 0 ppm nitrate is probally very low and ph 7.0 at 80 degrees. the water is alway clean and crystal clear I'm pretty sure its not bad water quality. as for feed the eat all the worms i feed them and i never leave un-eaten food in the tank. I also use a turkey baster to remove all waste and uneaten food. I buy the earthworms from a bate shop and the worms are grown in wormfarms. I have no idea what the heck these little things are? I also have fed the live blackworms every once in a while? could that be the cause? anymore ideas? could these worms be from the rays or harm them? thnx

Post by **Barbie** » 08 Jan 2005, 09:08

The odds are good they ARE a type of planaria (or actually something closely related). You need to actually test your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels. Rays put off copious amounts of waste, not to mention what they lose as they chew up their dinner. Those worms tend to be a warning sign that you have excess organics in your tank somewhere. Try cleaning your prefilter, reducing what you're feeding by 50% for a week or two, and doing a couple extra water changes. They'll usually disappear all on their own. They tend to be an early indication of impending doom. Hopefully you'll have caught the problem in time!

You don't mention what size the tank is, nor how much you're feeding the rays, or how often, or even how large the rays are. All of that information is going to help us, help you.

Barbie

ChrisB · Post by **ChrisB** » 08 Jan 2005, 20:03

the rays are about 6" in diameter and they are in a 180 gallon aquarium by themselves.
80 degree
0 ppm ammonia
0-1 ppm nitrite
I'm out of chemicals to test others

I'v had them for about a month and I see no reason that the water is of poor quality.

the worms seem thinner and different shape the planaria but it might be the worms are on the glass and in the water some seem dead?

Im going to reduce feeding and clean the filter but not the bio media.

Can these things kill my fish?

is there a product to kill them?

ChrisB · Post by **ChrisB** » 08 Jan 2005, 20:08

I forget to mention that I feed them 4-6 large earthworms daily. I clean the worms and cut them into 1 inche pieces.
they finish all of them 95% of the time.I always remove way they dont eat.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 08 Jan 2005, 20:20

I'd guess they are oligochaetes. They are present in most aquaria, but when in large numbers are usually a sign of something not quite right with the filter mechanics (not enough flow rate to remove particulate waste from all areas etc.)
I imagine Stingray crap would be an ideal food source for them, as would fragments of chewed earthworm. Perhaps increase your turnover so there are no dead areas?
What's your filter system?

ChrisB · Post by **ChrisB** » 09 Jan 2005, 03:38

I have a amiracle wet-dry addiquit for a 180 gallon with a 800 gph pump in it.

I did a 33% water change and removed all excess waste.

would a powerhead help?

ChrisB · Post by **ChrisB** » 10 Jan 2005, 22:08

Now Im getting a little worried, the worms are now every where there is small stringlike ones in the water and kinda planaria shaped ones on the back glass. the water is good qualty and ive done many water changes. what elese can i do? any worm killing chemicles or anything? are the worms a indication the the bio filter is not working or what. please help.

Post by **Barbie** » 11 Jan 2005, 01:42

Reduce what you're feeding them by half, or feed only every other day. Rinse the filter media in tank water 2 or 3 times a week. You're getting food or waste rotting somewhere in your tank that's feeding them. It will take a few weeks of tight control to get them in check, IMO.

Barbie

ChrisB · Post by **ChrisB** » 11 Jan 2005, 03:50

can these worms harm the rays?
should i add a filter that draws water from the middle of the tank?
more info would help

Post by **Barbie** » 11 Jan 2005, 06:15

The worms aren't the problem. The source of the worms will be. They only thrive and multiply like mad with a food source. If you remove, or greatly reduce that food source, you'll make the water cleaner, which is going to be much better for the rays. Rays act hungry every minute of the day unless they've just been fed. Unless they're recently imported and you can see their hip bones, being fed every other day is plenty. My 8" motoros got 3 nightcrawlers every other day, with a very small amount of sinking pellets on the off days and were growing and fat and healthy. I wouldn't bother to cut up the worms, as you're just releasing that much more into the water. A 6" ray will have no problem tackling a big worm, once they're used to eating them.

More frequent water changes of 30% or so won't hurt a thing. Rinsing the filter media will remove more decaying food or waste matter. The fact that you're seeing any nitrite at all is a sign that you're overloading the bacteria colonies in your filter. They just simply can't keep up with the waste being generated. Eventually they will catch up, but for now, the reduction in food won't hurt the rays, and will drastically improve the water they're living in.

Do NOT panic and buy a product to get rid of the worms. Rays aren't going to tolerate most medications well, you'll risk killing your biological bacteria, and then the rays would be in big trouble after their next big meal. The worms will go away if you cut back on the food and increase the maintenance, I promise. It will take a few weeks if you're faithful about it, or longer if their cute little begging faces sucker you into feeding them ;)

Barbie

ChrisB · Post by **ChrisB** » 11 Jan 2005, 06:58

i TESTED THE NITRITE AGAIN AND ITS 0 PPM i MADE A MISTAKE EARLIER

i DONT THINK MY BIOLOGICAL FILTER IS WORKING PROPERLY. WHEN I CLEAN THE MEDIA WHAT PART SHOULD I AVOID?
I TRY MY BEST TO GET RID OF THEM. CAN A 6" RAY REALLY EAT A LARGE EARTHWORM? I'VE TRIED IT ONCE AND THEY DIDN'T TOUCH IT. THNX ANYMORE ADVICE?

Post by **Barbie** » 11 Jan 2005, 07:56

Tap that caps lock key, take a deep breath...

I doubt you made a mistake earlier, actually. Your nitrite levels will be peaking off and on if your filter is cycled, but not quite able to keep up with the bioload. 12 large earthworms is a BIG load for the filter to be hit with as the fish process it.

If your rays won't hit a whole worm, they're not hungry enough. If you give them a day or two of trying them and they still aren't eating them, cut one in half. The smell will remind them what it is, and condition them to having to really grab it. You can also feed them seafood mix (frozen, $4 a pound at fred meyer), small shell on shrimp, and other food sources, which will be cheaper in the end than those worms are going to be. You might also look into a colony of composting worms. You can raise them in a small rubbermaid tub right under the ray tank. You've got more than enough to worry about at this point though, without taking on more.

Your biological filtration is working. If it wasn't, your ammonia and nitrites would be off the charts. You're just pushing it too hard with the load of food is all. Drastically reducing that food into the tank will make a big difference in that, don't worry. Rinse any prefilter media. Your bioballs should be left alone, but sponges, or floss, or whatever you have before that will be where your uneaten food and waste will be sitting decomposing. Make sure you're rinsing it in tank water and you can't really rinse it too often in a set up like yours.

The rays are alive, and feel good enough to eat. At this point, you just need to fine tune your need to watch the cute little beggars eat with what's actually best for them. They are very easy to kill with kindness. Take care of the water and they'll usually take care of the rest (within reason of course ;) )

Barbie