Chaetostoma Dilemma

[TPIRman]

Hi all,

I've gotten myself into a tough situation with a new Chaetostoma, and I was wondering if you all could offer some advice. About a month ago, I picked up a rubbernose at a local LFS. I thought I had done my research -- sites around the web and an article in PFK said that a rubbernose would be fine at temps up to 78 degrees. That's about the temp of my 30-gallon tank, where I planned to put my rubbernose after quarantine. I also discussed my water parameters at my local LFS, and they said it was a good fit. (This is usually a reputable, well-informed place -- not your typical LFS.) Tank companions in the 30G would be a school of cardinals and a school of hatchetfish -- the RN would be the sole bottom-dweller.

In the weeks since my purchase, I've read up about Chaetostoma here on the forums and have been disappointed to find my rubbernose really ought to be raised in lower temperatures than I'd be able to give it. While I've heard conflicting views on the care of Chaetostoma, the info here on PC has more science and experience behind it than anything else I've encountered.

As far as the fish's health so far is concerned, he (could be "she," naturally) has fared pretty well in QT. He turns his nose up at algae wafers, frozen bloodworms, and live blackworms, but he has eaten blanched spinach leaves and a bit of zucchini. He hides during the day and does laps around the glass at night. I have a clip-on fan blowing across the water to keep temps in the mid-70s. There's a smooth rock, a broken flower pot, and a piece of driftwood in the tank with him. He prefers the flower pot. Here's a picture:



The question is, what to do with this RN? It's just not practical for me to set up a cooler water tank in my apartment. I'm wary of giving the fish back to the LFS, as I suspect that it will probably just end up in another unsuitable tank. It would be ideal if someone with a proper tank in the area could take it off my hands, but finding that someone could be easier said than done. Still, these are both options I've considered. I feel bad for the mistakes I've made so far and just want the fish to have a good home. What do you think?

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can offer. Here's hoping I can find a good solution for this charming fish.

[Janne]

I think you should keep your RN, buy one more for the company. It's correct that many of this species comes from cooler water compared to other members in Loricariidae, but we can find many Chaetostoma species in rivers that range between 22-25 C and 78 F is just below 26 C. Even if they dont thrive in very warm water so is the oxygen level with a good current more important then to keep the exactly temperature, if you get one more and are lucky...they could suprice you and even breed at 26 C.

Janne

[TPIRman]

Thanks very much for the reply, Janne! Not what I was expecting to hear at all, but I'm happy to hear it. So two RNs will get along OK in the 30G? This is my first pleco, so I wasn't sure how different species tolerate company. I'd love to get another one. I've grown very fond of this fish.

Oxygen and current won't be a problem -- I've been prepping the 30G to provide plenty of both. I bet with some improved airflow under the glass top, I can also get the temperature down to 76-77F. I just can't do the ~73F I thought was required.

Thanks again for writing back. I really appreciate it.

-John

[bronzefry]

If you can, print out a copy of your photo and bring it along with you when you search for another. Many times, they look similar in the store, but they're different; look for subtle differences such as spots on the head, etc. Chaetostoma spp. don't get along with conspecifics. They're true Aufwuchs eaters and they like a nice, smooth rock to call home. You won't have to scrape the sides of whatever tank it inhabits. (Also, an airstone in its tank is good.)It's fun when they run laps. I haven't had one in a bit, but they seem to do better in a species tank. Have fun and enjoy your Chaetostoma sp.
Amanda

[TPIRman]

Thanks for your reply, Amanda! One quick question:

Chaetostoma spp. don't get along with conspecifics.

Does this mean I shouldn't get another RN for the tank? Or that I should take along the photo to make sure I don't get the same species?

-John

[MatsP]

I think I can clarify Amanda's comments:
They do not get along with SAME or SIMILAR species. However, given sufficient space (and suitable place to call "home", preferrably such that there is a nice flow of water around each of the spots), two or more can be held in the same tank - Amanda and a few other members have done this.

I think males may be more "violent" than females.

The photo is meant to find exactly the same species, solving the problem of "nearly the same but slightly different when viewed next to each other". I think

Chaetostoma

is a more diverse species than many other Loricariidae - this may have something to do with the fact that they often inhabit the smaller, upper reaches of a river, and they don't "meet" other Chaetostoma because that would mean entering a bigger river and swimming to the "next small river", which is not their typical behaviour. So they are, as a group, more isolated from other members of the same group than those fishes living in the lower regions of the rivers. [That's just speculation from my side, but it does sound plausible, don't you think ]

--
Mats

[TPIRman]

[That's just speculation from my side, but it does sound plausible, don't you think ]

Makes sense to me -- let's go with it!

I think I'm going to concentrate on setting up a good habitat for the one I have for now and then see about getting another down the road. I'll post pics once I have the tank all set up.

Thanks again.

-John

[Janne]

this may have something to do with the fact that they often inhabit the smaller, upper reaches of a river, and they don't "meet" other Chaetostoma because that would mean entering a bigger river and swimming to the "next small river", which is not their typical behaviour.

Almost every river or small creek on the Andean slopes both in east and west side inhabit species of Chaetostoma, many of them look very similar at the first glance but in fact this genus is probably the biggest in the Loricaridae family. It's not really true that each river inhabit only one species, I have cought in several rivers up to 3-4 different species living side by side with each other.

Janne

[MatsP]

this may have something to do with the fact that they often inhabit the smaller, upper reaches of a river, and they don't "meet" other Chaetostoma because that would mean entering a bigger river and swimming to the "next small river", which is not their typical behaviour.

Almost every river or small creek on the Andean slopes both in east and west side inhabit species of Chaetostoma, many of them look very similar at the first glance but in fact this genus is probably the biggest in the Loricaridae family. It's not really true that each river inhabit only one species, I have cought in several rivers up to 3-4 different species living side by side with each other.

Janne

Janne, thanks for the clarification. I assume you still agree that the species of one river doesn't (usually) meet species of another river for the reasons I stated, right?

--
Mats

[Janne]

I assume you still agree that the species of one river doesn't (usually) meet species of another river for the reasons I stated, right?

Yes of course, species from different rivers dont meet each other if we dont help them

Janne

[bronzefry]

I do understand what you are saying, Janne and I defer to your field experience(and experience breeding fish!). From my limited home aquarium experience, I've found that having (2) different Chaetostoma spp. in an aquarium (20 gallons or less), especially male with a female, even with separate territories it hasn't gone well. I hope my experience will be different in the future.

At least in a river, there may be a means of escape, i.e. several different rocks or another part of the river.
Amanda

[TPIRman]

Hi all,

Thanks again for your great advice so far. By adjusting current and fan position I've managed to squeeze out another degree or so of cooling. Soon, I plan to put my RN into the 30G tank. But there is one problem. I don't think he's eating.

I stated in an earlier post that I thought that the RN was eating blanched spinach and zucchini. But judging by the debris I've been picking up in my water changes every other day or so, I think that he's actually ignoring it, and in fact the veggies are just falling apart to be vacuumed up a day later. I've left spinach in for a couple days and it just slowly degrades. He also appears to ignore zucchini, kale, lettuce, squash, algae wafers, frozen bloodworms, live blackworms, shrimp pellets ... you get the idea. I've tried a lot of different things, and he doesn't appear to like any of them.

The most baffling thing is that the fish seems active and healthy otherwise. He's been waiting in QT for over a month -- about six weeks now -- so if he weren't eating anything, I'd expect to see some sign of it. But he's always thrashing around at night and hiding during the day. Seems normal.

Amanda mentioned that Chaetostoma spp. are true Aufwuchs eaters, but surely they like to eat something else as well ... ?

Any ideas?

[Chrysichthys]

They will eat regular sinking fish food. A good one is TetraPrima granules.

[bronzefry]

I noticed when the weather gets warmer, they don't seem to move around or eat as much in the aquarium. There would be times when I thought they'd jumped out, since I couldn't find them. They're quite adept at hiding. Please make sure their water is clean, too. Also, there's no way we can observe them at all hours. He may be cleaning the glass at 3am.
Amanda

[TPIRman]

Hi all,

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I wanted to post and thank everyone for all their helpful replies, especially the advice to keep my Chaetostoma. He has thrived in my 30G tank and has become my favorite fish. Here's a picture of him enjoying his rock in the tank.



To create a good current for him, I put a length of 1/2" tubing along the left side of the tank, near the bottom. I drilled small holes in a row along the length of the tubing, spaced about one inch apart, creating a spraybar of sorts. One end of the tubing is capped, and the other is fed by a powerhead to create a brisk current along the bottom of the tank.

I put a fist-sized rock, along with some smaller stones, in the gravel in front of this current. As you can see by the photo, "Plecky" quickly took to this setup. He actually spends most of his time on the glass, but he seems to regard the rock as his home turf, having burrowed down a depression in the gravel around it. After I leveled out the gravel during a recent replanting, I woke up the next morning to find that he had spent the night returning the landscape to his specifications.

He spends much more time in the open than he did in QT. He typically hides in the morning and early afternoon and comes out in the afternoon and evening (with the light on) to clean the glass, etc. I still never see him eating any of the veggies I put in for him, but I see plenty of food coming out the other end, so to speak.

I have the PlanetCatfish forums to thank for helping me successfully keep a fun, rewarding fish. I'm very grateful for your expertise and support!

Sincerely,
John

[grokefish]

I'm really glad you revived this old post, it's nice to know that he is getting on well. I remember reading this post and thinking how nice it was that you wanted to keep him happy as many people would have just punted him back to the LFS.
In fact I have four cheatostoma, that I have been collecting over time so that I have the same species and they all live happily in a 36'x12'x18' tank.
I got these as a direct result of inspiration from this post and an article by Jools in PFK.
There is a lot of current and aeration and the tank is not heated and they don't kill each other. They sqauble a bit but mostly stick to their respective rocks.
They are not staying in this tank as I chose to keep some that grow a bit bigger than the wee ones, and will be moved to a 5'x19"x24" high tank with the tank half full and emergent plants to simulate the bank of the river or a 4ft long 2ft wide 18 inch high tank as I have both of these free to set up in the near future.
Matt

[bronzefry]

That rock grouping is so important. It's a place to call home. His/her eyes look bright and full. Keep up the good work!
Amanda

[darkwolf29a]

I'm very glad you didn't get rid of him, and...I'm glad you brought this topic back up. It's nice to read that he's doing well.

My girlfriend has one of these, and 2 White Seam BN in the same tank...among other fish. I just love watching them.

[Farid]

Hi john,
this would have been my thing to tell you to place some flat/round stones into the current.
what you can try as these fish love to clear the stones from algae...place some stones in a flat bin (maybe a small tank), and leave it on the window.a sunny balcony would be better of course. in a few weeks of sunshine these stones will be covered with algae. so time by time you can exchange these stones with the clean ones in the tank i've heard that it helps to put a little plantfertilizer in this stone tank so algae grow faster. but not too much!

farid