ID Please. Which Synodontis?

[flappinganimal]

Hi. I have purchased some 'upside down' catfish after researching that they were peacefull shoalers suitable for a comunity aquarium. However I am somewhat concerned that they arnt the usualy variety of upside down catfish and could be something 'big'. Ive been driving myself bonkers trying to get adecent photo for you but failed miserably. Here is the best I could do. I think they are about an inch and a half long at the moment.
Thanks

[Marc van Arc]

These are indeed no genuine USD catfish. The fish looks nicely, but I think it may be a hybrid of some kind; it looks somewhat like

Synodontis sp_hybrid(3)

(click the link and the species will show up).

[Marc van Arc]

Or - at 1.5" long - could it be a juvenile

Synodontis euptera

?
Synos used to be much easier in the old days

[flappinganimal]

Hi Marc van arc, thanks for the reply

I did think maybe euptera but because they change colour as they grow ive found it hard to find a photo of one the same as mine.

Can I post a link to photobucket, ive shot a small video which might help..
http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/f ... novid1.flv

Am I likely to have to rehome them. They are in with peacefull fish, tetras, harlequins, corys, brochis and a bristlenose.?

Thanks again

[Marc van Arc]

Have a look at this picture of a small S. euptera: http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=4192

The hybrid doesn't match in your opinion?

[flappinganimal]

Hmm. The euperta looks the closest I think. The hybrid seems to have more contrast in the colouring with a less 'busy' patterning than mine.. Having said that it does look very similar.

So if we go with the S.euperta, what is my next course of action?

Thanks.

[Marc van Arc]

After seeing the video I think the hybrid isn't the right species at all and I'm inclined to think it is euptera after all. If so, I wouldn't combine them with small & peaceful/defenseless fishes.
But we should wait until the Syno-pros join in for a 100% verdict.

Welcome to PC btw.

[flappinganimal]

Thanks very much marc van arc.

The shop should take them back if they turn out to be incompatable with my other fish.

[flappinganimal]

No other opinions on this?

[MatsP]

There may be others that can weigh in, but I think the answer you already have is correct. Usually people here only comment on ID's if the ID'er is uncertain or wrong - it's no point in 10 people saying "I think so too", when someone has already posted the correct ID.

--
Mats

[flappinganimal]

Thanks Matsp.
The only reason I gave it a bump is that marc van arc sugested that we wait until the syno pros join in.

Thanks for comfirming.

EDIT: Sorry for bothering you needlessly

[flappinganimal]

Sorry I wasnt going to let that get to me but it has. I joined this forum to hopefully get some help from you guys in the know and maybe a nice welcome. I didnt expect to get told off by one of the moderators for asking for a second opinion, which was advised to me by one of your more friendly members. Rest assured I wont be bothering you again.
I didnt ask for 10 people to comment. I was advised to wait until the syno pros came along. My LFS gives a 5 day return policy on fish so time was of the essense. I left it a day then decided to give it a polite nudge. I dont think thats too unreasonable, and it certainly didnt warrant a belittling response like that.

I can tell that new members are not welcome here so I will be on my bike.

Thanks again for the correct ID. I will stick to my usualy fish forum in future.

[L number Banana]

oo! Just saw your reply when I was typing mine, I don't think MatsP meant it that way I guess he's a bit on guard for all the people that come, get an ID and promptly disagree, even with the bigwig experts! I guess as a moderator he might get a bit weary of that. I'm sure no harm was meant. He's actually a very nice guy. There's nothing wrong at all to wait a while and see if others can confirm Marc's ID.

Can we start over?
Welcome to Planet Catfish
I'm definitely NOT a syno expert but this little guy looks like the ones that my LFS has in at the moment and are labeled as S. euptera. Pretty fish!

You asked if they would be okay with your other fish, I can't tell you that either but if you haven't taken him back yet, let me tell you about my experience.
I have a hybrid ( !) that seems to be part euptera (?) and he lived with tiny fish when he was smaller but some cory babies may have disappeared before I found them, there were however at least 12 corys that were raised from eggs that I had left in the same tank. They had lots of hiding places. He now lives with

Megalechis thoracata

, several small cories, 1 inch ruby barbs and several oto-cats. No problems so far and he is just under 5 inches now. when I have only the night light on, I see him cruising around and brush past the little guys with no problem. He has his own cave system but frequently hangs out with M. thoracata.

There are several members here who have lots of experience keeping synos so maybe we'll still hear from one of them about compatible fish to keep with them.

[MatsP]

I do apologise for the phrasing of my post, I should have put it differently. What I meant to say, that if someone has a different opinion, or one of the "real syno experts" wishes to confirm the ID, they will do so. Not everyone logs on several times a day, some people only go on to Planet Catfish once ever few days. But when they do, they will at the very least read all the "interesting" posts, so someone specializing in Synos would check a thread like this one. There should be no reason to "bump" the post.

The Cat-eLog does explain that it's a good fish compatible with all but the smallest fish. They do grow quite big, however.

--
Mats

[flappinganimal]

Again, a little rude
How am I supposed to know how this forum operates and how often the members sign in? I am sorry but I realy dont get why you seem to have taken offense to me "bumping" the thread?? Maybe a polite PM informing me of the strict etiquette of the site might have been a better way of letting me know that I musnt "bump" posts?
I wasnt searching for a "different opinion", I was searching for confirmation as advised by marc van arc. I didnt want to waste any time in getting an answer, for all I know they could have killed all my existing stock!
How am I to know what is classed as an "interesting" post when I have only been a member for two days? For all I know your experts could skim past this kind of post. Also I edited the title of the post to include the word 'synodontis' to help catch the eye of the experts and wasnt sure if the post had been over looked before I edited it.
So a more gentle approach to new members who dont know about planet cafish's strict forum rules might be in order?

L number banana, thank you so much for your reply, thats realy helpful. The kind of thing I was hoping for and realy interesting to hear about your experiences.

Should I decide to keep these guys? I am planning on starting a 400 litre aquarium for my Brochis splendens. PH 7.2 Will they go nicely with the Brochis? L number banana I see that your hybrid is doing well in with your Corys so im hoping this will be fine.

This tank wont be setup until maybe the new year. They are currently in a 125 litre. How quickly do they grow? Will they be ok where they are until the new home is ready?

Thanks for your help. Im realy sorry I got off on the wrong foot. I should have read through the forums first to familurise myself with the laws of the website. I didnt mean to tread on anyones toes or to offend. Im just trying to do whats best for my fish and maybe learn something along the way.

Thanks.

[L number Banana]

No problem, flappinganimal, everyone here been less than perfect many times - it would be boring to get everything 'just right' the first time. You should see some of my posts! and MatsP has helped me out of some of the dumbest situations but you'll find that out as you get comfy here. I'm one of those members that checks in once a day, I use it as my wake up/coffee/smoke/mental infusion.

Should I decide to keep these guys? I am planning on starting a 400 litre aquarium for my Brochis splendens. PH 7.2 Will they go nicely with the Brochis? L number banana I see that your hybrid is doing well in with your Corys so im hoping this will be fine.

I'd keep them but I'm kind of bias. I'd ask this question on a new thread with the cory experts. Somewhere up on the title bar under 'forums', maybe "B.splendens/syno compatible?" There are many experts that keep an eye on that forum but it might not get a reply right away.

Are you planning to breed the Brochis? If you are, there's a good link in the cory forum at the top that talks about breeding and getting the eggs out of the way of other hungry critters. In the meantime, your syno is still a little guy so I think it will be okay but I'm only speaking from my experience.

Did you read through this link?

Synodontis euptera

There's some good info there about tankmates but he does get kind of big so swimming space and some refuge spots would be important. If you're getting the larger tank in the new year I think that would be okay judging by the growth of the euptera I've been watching at my LFS, they've had them for a few months now and the ones left have only grown maybe 1 cm? It's a good size tank that they're in so I'm guessing this growth is normal. Some of the experts say that the tank should be twice as wide as the max size of the fish to halp them turn around easily but there must be some fudging room judging by the size of the tanks that 'the experts' have there fish in.
How many did you get? If you got several, you may want to check into the filtration issue and take some back if you think there will be too many for your larger tank when they're full grown. They seem to live an awful long time so that's something to think about.

My hybrid is growing FAST but since he's an freak (I still adore him, the hybridizer fools are to blame - not the fish), that's not really a good way to judge normal growth. You may want to try looking up 'S.euptera' in the regular search bar and it will find you previous posts about your fish. I think someone has asked about growth in the past. You may find other useful goodies there too.

I think the search bar 'inside' each forum searches only that forum so you could search for euptera info in the African Catfish forum. If MatsP is still floating around, he may be able to tell us if that's the case.

Here's a couple pics to give you an idea of how fast the colour changes: The first pic is when I got mine at the start of this year (Jan 25th) and the second pic was a couple days ago. The pictures aren't very good but you can see the cory babies right in the pictures and they're still there The last picture is quite awful but it shows how they change body shape to become 'deeper'?, very nice swimming style with that body shape - they kind of glide - cool.



Let us know what you decide and I'll take a look at what the others reply if you post the compatibilty question in the Cory or African Cats forum.
Cheers
PS. sorry for writing a novel! Must have caught me at an extra yappy moment!

[Birger]

I wasnt searching for a "different opinion", I was searching for confirmation as advised by marc van arc. I didnt want to waste any time in getting an answer, for all I know they could have killed all my existing stock!

I enjoy keeping, researching and basically anything to do with Synodontis, I will confirm Marc's earlier posts

Should I decide to keep these guys? I am planning on starting a 400 litre aquarium for my Brochis splendens. PH 7.2 Will they go nicely with the Brochis? L number banana I see that your hybrid is doing well in with your Corys so im hoping this will be fine.

This tank wont be setup until maybe the new year. They are currently in a 125 litre. How quickly do they grow? Will they be ok where they are until the new home is ready?

They would be okay with Brochis, this fish will grow rather fast and you should see a difference by the time your new tank is set up, with good conditions will get to 15 cm quite fast and then it's growth will slow some. Be aware of the eventual final size of these fish not overly huge but a full bodied eupterus with full finnage is quite a sight.The term SL after the measurement means from the tip of it's nose to the base of the tail, on these you could add another 5 cm at least for the tail itself.

Should be okay where it is, occasionally they can take a dislike to another or will protect it's hidey hole so watch for that.
It will eat almost anything and quite greedily so make sure the others are getting their share.

Another good fish that complement these quite well are Phenacogrammus interruptus (Congo Tetra's) similar long flowing finage and same greedy appetite make them ideal tankmates for large syno's.

Birger

[andywoolloo]

I wasn't for sure so I didn't post but I have been watching this thread.

When Marc ID'd it it was for sure and Birger as well. And what Mats said is correct, he wasn't trying to upset you or anything. I didn't read it like that at all. Mats is always very helpful and kind and knowledgable. Sometimes we interpret alot into the written word that isn't there. Or we can, you know? Being patient for an answer is well worth it on this site.

Stay and learn here, it's a great forum. A more scientific forum, more serious forum maybe even. It was very intimidating to me at first also. Sometimes it still is.

I have 5 eupterus' in a 75 gal (soon to be upgraded) so maybe I can help you with some things also.

Welcome.

[Marc van Arc]

I didnt mean to tread on anyones toes or to offend.

You didn't. You got upset by a reply that was a bit harsh in your opinion. That's no problem, for knowing Mats a little it was not intended as such.
Just stick around. It's worth it. Learn & enjoy!
Marc

[Jools]

I didnt mean to tread on anyones toes or to offend.

You didn't. You got upset by a reply that was a bit harsh in your opinion. That's no problem, for knowing Mats a little it was not intended as such.
Just stick around. It's worth it. Learn & enjoy!
Marc

In my opinion, I think Mats reply was perfectly reasonable and the use of smiley in the bump was ambiguous. Everyone has however rushed in and smoothed things out as, reading this from a dispassionate / "helicopter view" it was just a case of getting the wrong end of the stick and I personally think Mats reply doesn't require any apology - he's one of our most active moderators and gives up hours of his time, for no money, to look after it for the rest of us. That gives him the right to point out why a post has not been replied to and indeed if he didn't then you'd just think everyone was ignoring you!

At the end of the day, this fish was IDed correctly IMHO.

Glad it's all sorted out and welcome to the site flappinganimal! You'll find we're a helpful, passionate about our hobby bunch here!

Cheers,

Jools

[flappinganimal]

Morning guys.
Firstly an appology to mats. I was being a classic forum newby and should know better than to kick off like that. Thanks to everyone for calming it down for me. Realy appreciate it. You've got a realy great site here which people give there time and knowledge to to help people like me, so thanks

Just want to say marc if you hadnt said that we should wait for the syno pros I wouldnt have questioned your ID. I was 99% sure you were correct, the only hint of dout came from you having a hint of dout lol. Cheers

Thanks birger. I can see why you love these fish, they have a certain something about them. Thanks for the info re the compatablity. I think Congo Tetras will be a great addition to the tank.

So far I have only realy kept small fish so am looking forward to getting this aquarium setup and have some larger fish. I dont want to complicate the tank though so I think I'll stick to the brochis, synos and congos.

Will I have to rehome some of the synos because I have 4 of them? 4 fully grown adults could get very messy as L number banana points out. Do they require company of the same species?

Sorry about all the questions, I like to make things clear in my mind before I take any action and mess things up, like I did getting the fish in the first place. But im kind of glad I did now

Thanks for your time and welcomes, sorry again mats.

[Jools]

Also, no apology needed from you flappinganimal - as we're all saying (you included) it's all just wrong end of the stick stuff. Welcome to the site and we're delighted you got your catfish identified and we look forward to persuading you into keeping more of 'em!

Jools

[MatsP]

If you have a 400 liter tank, I'd say you can keep four of these. They do grow fairly quickly, as far as I understand, and no, they don't need each others company, but don't seem to mind being in a group either.

Apology accepted.

--
Mats

[flappinganimal]

Thank you Jools and matsP. I'm a nice guy realy, and a real lover of fish. Hope to learn alot from the experts here.

Thats good news that I can keep all 4. Realy excited now!

[Marc van Arc]

Just want to say marc if you hadnt said that we should wait for the syno pros I wouldnt have questioned your ID. I was 99% sure you were correct, the only hint of dout came from you having a hint of dout Cheers

I was also 99% sure, but that still leaves 1%. The problem with Synos nowadays is (hence my reply earlier) that quite a few hybrids have occurred in the last few years, which makes it more difficult to give a correct ID. And because I don't want to provide "false" information I asked for a confirmation of someone who's better at Synos than me. Therefore it's a good thing Birger joined in to do so.
If you have the time you might have a look at the (many) postings about Syno hybrids; they'll explain a lot. There should be plenty in the "What is my catfish" forum.
Most important however, is that you have the ID, like your fish and decided to keep them. That's what matters.

[flappinganimal]

Thank you marc. I think i'll spend my Sunday reading all about my new fish. Just read a few older posts about hybrids. I can see now why there is often some caution in giving 100% ID's.
Realy interesting posts on here, i'll be glued to the screen for quite some time

[racoll]

Sometimes we interpret alot into the written word that isn't there.

Exactly. My advice is just to read the words at face value. When you can't see someone's face, or hear the tone of their voice, it is hard to gauge if they are simply being matter-of-fact or pissed off.

Welcome to the site by the way. I hope Colchester is well. I used to live there for a while!

[flappinganimal]

I agree entirely racoll, hence my grovelling appology. Sorry again matsP.

Colchester is very well thanks Nice and sunny today

[Richard B]

Er...better late than never Syno Euptera!

The pic is of an extremely well marked individual which looks atypical at first glance, but the video shows what we all know & love as Euptera.

[flappinganimal]

Thanks for your thoughts Richard B