Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus vs cf. triradiatus

[Suckermouth]

Hey,

I was curious what led to PC referring to this Ancistrus sp. as Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus. I ask because Geerinckx has done a fair amount of work on a species of Ancistrus obtained in pet stores and refers to it as "Ancistrus cf. triradiatus". I'm curious if anyone has asked Geerinckx for images of his fish for comparison to see if they are possibly the same as what we have been referring to as A. cf. cirrhosus.

[Dave Rinaldo]

I believe it came about from this article by Ingo Seidel in Shane's World.

[Suckermouth]

Oh, thanks, for the link. However, for consistency's sake it'd be interesting to see if Geerinckx's fish are the same.

[Mike_Noren]

A quick google scholar search suggests that while Geerinckx has done a lot of developmental biology work on Ancistrus, he doesn't appear to have done any phylogenetic study. He may simply have accepted a tentative ID from some other researcher.

FWIW, contemporary Commons are a lot more similar to cf cirrhosus than to triradiatus.

[Suckermouth]

A quick google scholar search suggests that while Geerinckx has done a lot of developmental biology work on Ancistrus, he doesn't appear to have done any phylogenetic study. He may simply have accepted a tentative ID from some other researcher.

FWIW, contemporary Commons are a lot more similar to cf cirrhosus than to triradiatus.

I agree that this is the likely case. I'm somewhat curious as to what I would have to call the common Ancistrus if I did research on them, Ancistrus cf. triradiatus for consistency in the literature, or Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus for perhaps better accuracy. Alternatively, I could skirt the issue entirely and call them "Ancistrus sp."

[Shane]

I'm somewhat curious as to what I would have to call the common Ancistrus if I did research on them, Ancistrus cf. triradiatus for consistency in the literature, or Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus for perhaps better accuracy. Alternatively, I could skirt the issue entirely and call them "Ancistrus sp."

Ancistrus sp would probably be best for general usage as the info out there on the commonly bred "Ancistrus domesticus" (even that done by me) is part research, part best guessing, and a dash of logic. The common Ancistrus bred around the world by aquarists is currently considered Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus while the most commonly imported wild Ancistrus is A. triradiatus. They are collected in huge numbers in the llanos and exported from Bogota via Villavicencio. Several other spp are shipped from Peru and Brasil as well as the north of Colombia, but A. triradiatus is the only Ancistrus that I have come across that is shipped in truly huge numbers.

Now that I have said the above, the Ancistrus sp collected near Cucuta is starting to overtake A. triradiatus. Colombian exporters call it A. brevifilis, but this identification is incorrect. Current October 2009 prices are:
A. triradiatus (Villavicencio) $.61 each
A. brevifilis (Cucuta) $.25 each
Compare these to
A. cf haplogenys (Leticia) $1.10 each
A. ranuculus (Puerto Carreno ) $4.80

Prices for fishes out of Cucuta are also generally cheaper, especially for Chaetostoma. We are seeing another shift (which happens every 5-15 years) where different species become the new "common" Ancistrus, Chaetostoma, pleco, etc, etc. Not that long ago the "commons" were Venezuelan, then Guyanese, then Peruvian, now Colombian. It is a cycle.
-Shane

[Shane]

PS If you do decide to do research on Ancistrus I would highly suggest you either collect your own or obtain some directly from the original collector so the sp can be properly identified and cited in your studies.
-Shane